[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I mean that after the job is done he cannot cope; Sam and Bilbo cope once they are free of the Ring, but Frodo is terribly wounded. Of course, he does go through a lot more, but then we also have to consider that Bilbo used it a lot more and carried it for longer. Or, do you think that even after the Ring was gone, Frodo coped well?

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

Or is it that the Ring works on the personality/characteristics of each bearer? Bilbo gains the Ring innocently and uses it relatively innocently to hide from the Sackville-Bagginsesand other intrusive Hobbits. Both Bilbo and Sam seem quite robust Hobbits psychologically. Is Frodo different? It's something that might be worth looking at. Isildur is proud of his heritage and the Ring seems to work on this side of his personality, something which is echoed in Boromir many years later. And then Gollum, who kills to get the Ring, uses it to sneak on his kin and eventually to retreat even further into solitude. So, what is it about Frodo that the Ring works on? His sense of duty? Was this strong before he was left the Ring?

I think it comes down to a rather simple difference. Frodo and Sam set their wills against the Ring whilst they possessed it. Bilbo never did, and Gollum never did, and Isildur never did. So I'm going to rate these five Ring bearers in terms of most to least culpible.

1. Gollum. He murdered to get the Ring, and it owned him.
2. Isildur. He had a chance to destroy it at Mount Doom, was exhorted to throw it away by Elrond (or was that just the movie?), but fell to the temptation of possessing it, making of it a family heirloom.
3. Bilbo. He happened upon it innocently, but used it readily. He didn't know it was evil, and succumbed to the effects of using it at all.
4. Sam. He did what was necessary to save the Ring from falling into the hands of the Dark Lord, setting his own will aside, ready to do what he believed to be right, even though he didn't want to; he held the Ring for a short while.
5. Frodo. He held the Ring for a long time, and set his will against it as long as he could, and sought its destruction for as long as he could.

So Frodo's will being set against that which was more powerful than he, for so long, resulted in the spiritual wounds he bore into the West. Sam did not hold the Ring long enough; it's reasonable to believe that in his own way, he would have done as well as Frodo, but did not have to.

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

On the topic of Sam seeing the star and regaining hope, does anyone think that Sam may have seen the silmaril on Earendil's ship?

Why not?

I find it interesting that the Worst things that have been laid out here:

• despair
• a terrible choice between loved ones
• selfishness
• loss of the fairest thing ever beheld
• Turin's curse drawn out to the bitter end
• setting aside one's strength to do what was right

I find it curious that no one has posited suffering as the worst thing any characters had to face; especially considering some of the strong opinions stated elsewhere on these threads about that subject.