[Eonwe]

i am truely shocked. verily i say to you, you are of small mind if you think turgon is to be hated and branded with that dispicable title of "least favorite elf. Ever". i would first like to hear some sound evidence of blight on teh character of our great lord of gondonlin, the last bastion of strength and definance to morgoth, foe of the world.

as for his merrits, those are plain. established fairest city in middle-earth. ruled with a benevolent hand. showed mercy to hurin and huor. came (completley unexpected although completely needed) to the aid of maedhros. fell in honorable death defending his people. grandfathered teh savior of middle-earth, eariendil. thismuch is plain, and i don't think it warrents these grossly outrageous character assasin's blows.

as for who to send to morgoth, you were on the right track back there. i ask you, who was the only one to come to open war with the dwarves. who was it that allowed no men into his lands and fiefs. who dealt most highhandedly in all middle-earth? the answer to all three of these quetions is Thingol. the damage to dwarves is plain, his armies killed them. the damage to men comes through dealing coldly and inhospitably with teh father's of men. look at the great hieghts men assended too under the tutalige of nom. where else could they ahve trod with the grace and beauty that comes from elvin knowledge, if thingol had opened his lands to them? how might the armies of the noldor have been swelled if men were provided with safe domains to rest and recover from their dark past, instead of teh mean dwellings, constantly overrun with orcs, provided in stead?

as for Saeros, how is king of beleriand. i believe that would be thingol. and how are decisions made in a monarchy? i believe by teh king. thingol has proved a rash, proud ruler in his dealing with beren (insidentally, the fates of middle-earth were tied directly to this man, who thingol scourned and regected). Im sure that a freaking maia's voice of reason more than offset Saeros' "poisonous xenophobic influences", and thingol still managed to make bad decitions. there is were teh root lies! strike at the roots!

++Thingol must go.