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Kalessin · 03-07-2002, 07:24 PM

Littleman, I agree with you, the 'allegory' tag is often and infuriatingly mis-applied to Tokien (and other writers). Finding a structural or even symbolic similiarity is a million miles from proving allegorical intent. And your excellent summation of the "theistic humanism" in Tolkien's work actually does much more justice to his creativity and original voice. I have tried - believe me I have tried - to argue repeatedly that to imply LotR or other works are some kind of 'new age' re-working of the Bible, or that Tolkien was coding explicitly evangelical messages through his mythos, is an insult to his work. Proponents of this argument (ie. Gandalf is Jesus etc.) are by inference turning JRRT into little more than a subtle plagiarist or 'spin doctor'.

Traditional Christian sensibilities, and specifically the primacy of honour, loyalty, self-sacrifice and platonic love as the highest of virtues are self-evident in all Tolkien's works. This inherently chivalric morality is entirely consistent with his own contextual writing and expressed intent. I can't see how overlaying this with an evangelical propagandist agenda makes his works more meaningful or enjoyable - in fact it achieves the opposite. I can't help worrying about appropriation and an attempt at 'ownership' when I see this.

If you review the major world mythos, from the Ramayana to the Mabinogion, from the Neibelung to the Tuathe de Danaan, from Quetzacoatl to the Iliad and Odyssey, you can and will find symbolic and moral similarities, coincidences, narrative methodologies, and an attempt at both lyricism and depth - and it is Tolkien's achievement that, working alone in a cynical and world-weary era, he painstakingly re-captured and re-invigorated readers with some of this essence in his works.

As literature, the traditional English translation of the Bible - particularly the Gospels - is a work of profound conviction and complexity ; it is challenging, revelatory, joyful, transcendent and volcanic in its intensity. No allegory, however disguised with eclectic archetypes from world myths, could do it justice, and such an act is not necessary. The LotR and other works were an act of creativity and attentiveness by Tolkien, suffused with his cultural and spiritual sensibilities, and with conscious and unconscious references to the pantheon of heroic and magical storytelling he loved so much. Let it speak and stand for itself. And let the Bible stand and speak for itself too.

Peace

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

03-07-2002, 07:24 PM	#11
Kalessin Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Earthsea, or London Posts: 175	Littleman, I agree with you, the 'allegory' tag is often and infuriatingly mis-applied to Tokien (and other writers). Finding a structural or even symbolic similiarity is a million miles from proving allegorical intent. And your excellent summation of the "theistic humanism" in Tolkien's work actually does much more justice to his creativity and original voice. I have tried - believe me I have tried - to argue repeatedly that to imply LotR or other works are some kind of 'new age' re-working of the Bible, or that Tolkien was coding explicitly evangelical messages through his mythos, is an insult to his work. Proponents of this argument (ie. Gandalf is Jesus etc.) are by inference turning JRRT into little more than a subtle plagiarist or 'spin doctor'. Traditional Christian sensibilities, and specifically the primacy of honour, loyalty, self-sacrifice and platonic love as the highest of virtues are self-evident in all Tolkien's works. This inherently chivalric morality is entirely consistent with his own contextual writing and expressed intent. I can't see how overlaying this with an evangelical propagandist agenda makes his works more meaningful or enjoyable - in fact it achieves the opposite. I can't help worrying about appropriation and an attempt at 'ownership' when I see this. If you review the major world mythos, from the Ramayana to the Mabinogion, from the Neibelung to the Tuathe de Danaan, from Quetzacoatl to the Iliad and Odyssey, you can and will find symbolic and moral similarities, coincidences, narrative methodologies, and an attempt at both lyricism and depth - and it is Tolkien's achievement that, working alone in a cynical and world-weary era, he painstakingly re-captured and re-invigorated readers with some of this essence in his works. As literature, the traditional English translation of the Bible - particularly the Gospels - is a work of profound conviction and complexity ; it is challenging, revelatory, joyful, transcendent and volcanic in its intensity. No allegory, however disguised with eclectic archetypes from world myths, could do it justice, and such an act is not necessary. The LotR and other works were an act of creativity and attentiveness by Tolkien, suffused with his cultural and spiritual sensibilities, and with conscious and unconscious references to the pantheon of heroic and magical storytelling he loved so much. Let it speak and stand for itself. And let the Bible stand and speak for itself too. Peace [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]