The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth

Saulotus · 09-22-2000, 11:32 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 63</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth - Third Age?

>>I'm surprised no one has argued that after Numenor was dumped into the ocean and the world changed, the Valar, having laid down their governance of Arda so Eru could make the world round and remove the undying lands, no longer can directly affect events in Middle Earth. I saw this argued somewhere once but personally don't agree.<<

My personal opinion is that the world was always round, with the flat idea abandoned as too dificult to work with. The changing of the World is the removal of Valinor, not making it round. Speculation holds that since Valinor was in the West, by sailing east you should also be able to arrive there. The Numenoreans discovered that there was land to the east, but that it was not Valinor. Nor could they sail past it.
Speculation:
this is probably the Americas. Considering the Helcaraxe and it's extention south, it's reasonable to deduce that the south also had ice reaching to land effectively landlocking the Americas in this instance.

I cite the now infamous LETTER #131 as an example where in Tolkien's description, the removal of Valinor is NOT making the world round, but of not being able to find Valinor by sailing west since it had been removed from the memory of the earth. Attempting to find it would only bring you back eventually to where you started from.
'You can't get there from here: physically' (ya gotta forsake Time and Mortality in the physical world forevermore [LETTER #151]).

I believe that during the Second Age the Valar were afraid of the destructive capabilities when they personally took active roles in the Wars of Middle-earth. Beleriand comes to mind. This may be why they chose 'lesser' ambassadors to represent them, hoping to keep the destruction toned down. This is during the Second Age.

During the Third Age, they had already surrendered any rights to DIRECT governance and involvement to Eru near the end of the Second Age. So they had been reduced to 'proxies' or ambassadors by need instead of choice.

Ah, I could go on I suppose.

</p>

09-22-2000, 11:32 AM	#10
Saulotus Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 346	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 63</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth - Third Age? >>I'm surprised no one has argued that after Numenor was dumped into the ocean and the world changed, the Valar, having laid down their governance of Arda so Eru could make the world round and remove the undying lands, no longer can directly affect events in Middle Earth. I saw this argued somewhere once but personally don't agree.<< My personal opinion is that the world was always round, with the flat idea abandoned as too dificult to work with. The changing of the World is the removal of Valinor, not making it round. Speculation holds that since Valinor was in the West, by sailing east you should also be able to arrive there. The Numenoreans discovered that there was land to the east, but that it was not Valinor. Nor could they sail past it. Speculation: this is probably the Americas. Considering the Helcaraxe and it's extention south, it's reasonable to deduce that the south also had ice reaching to land effectively landlocking the Americas in this instance. I cite the now infamous LETTER #131 as an example where in Tolkien's description, the removal of Valinor is NOT making the world round, but of not being able to find Valinor by sailing west since it had been removed from the memory of the earth. Attempting to find it would only bring you back eventually to where you started from. 'You can't get there from here: physically' (ya gotta forsake Time and Mortality in the physical world forevermore [LETTER #151]). I believe that during the Second Age the Valar were afraid of the destructive capabilities when they personally took active roles in the Wars of Middle-earth. Beleriand comes to mind. This may be why they chose 'lesser' ambassadors to represent them, hoping to keep the destruction toned down. This is during the Second Age. During the Third Age, they had already surrendered any rights to DIRECT governance and involvement to Eru near the end of the Second Age. So they had been reduced to 'proxies' or ambassadors by need instead of choice. Ah, I could go on I suppose. </p>