The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth

***Mithadan*** · 09-22-2000, 06:17 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 88</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth - Third Age?

Possible. I forgot about the Blue Wizards and thought they arrived in the Third Age. Glorfindel's time of arrival is kind of unsettled too. I forget what HoME 12 says about that (he's discussed in Letters too but my older copy doesn't have an index like the new re-issue).

I've always felt that the Valar never really abandoned anyone. Their failure to intercede was likely a combination of fear for damage and some degree of "apathy". I use the term "apathy" guardedly because it could easily be argued that the Valar take the long view. Being functionally immortal, a hundred generations (mannish) of trouble might be a drop in the bucket.

But lets take a more radical view. Morgoth's Ring discusses the dissemination of Morgoth's power into the fabric of Arda. The Valar were not inactive with regard to the forming, building and maintainence of Arda either. Perhaps after creating Two Trees, umpteen stars, winds, clouds, gems, mountains, rivers and maintaining the souls and dreams of countless elves, dwarves and men (assuming that they have a role in the keeping of the souls of Dwarves and men) has drastically lessened the power of the Valar to the point where direct intercession into the events of Middle Earth is not viable. This is hinted at in BoLT and early conceptions of the Silmarillion, particularly in the Second Prophecy of Mandos (when the world becomes old and the Valar weary of their burden, Morgoth will re-enter Arda and the Final Battle will occur). Its also hinted at in later iterations (when the lamps of the Valar where upended by Morgoth the Valar expended their energies in keeping Arda in one piece).
Thoughts?

I'm surprised no one has argued that after Numenor was dumped into the ocean and the world changed, the Valar, having laid down their governance of Arda so Eru could make the world round and remove the undying lands, no longer can directly affect events in Middle Earth. I saw this argued somewhere once but personally don't agree.

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09-22-2000, 06:17 AM	#7
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,397	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 88</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did the Valar abandon Middle Earth - Third Age? Possible. I forgot about the Blue Wizards and thought they arrived in the Third Age. Glorfindel's time of arrival is kind of unsettled too. I forget what HoME 12 says about that (he's discussed in Letters too but my older copy doesn't have an index like the new re-issue). I've always felt that the Valar never really abandoned anyone. Their failure to intercede was likely a combination of fear for damage and some degree of "apathy". I use the term "apathy" guardedly because it could easily be argued that the Valar take the long view. Being functionally immortal, a hundred generations (mannish) of trouble might be a drop in the bucket. But lets take a more radical view. Morgoth's Ring discusses the dissemination of Morgoth's power into the fabric of Arda. The Valar were not inactive with regard to the forming, building and maintainence of Arda either. Perhaps after creating Two Trees, umpteen stars, winds, clouds, gems, mountains, rivers and maintaining the souls and dreams of countless elves, dwarves and men (assuming that they have a role in the keeping of the souls of Dwarves and men) has drastically lessened the power of the Valar to the point where direct intercession into the events of Middle Earth is not viable. This is hinted at in BoLT and early conceptions of the Silmarillion, particularly in the Second Prophecy of Mandos (when the world becomes old and the Valar weary of their burden, Morgoth will re-enter Arda and the Final Battle will occur). Its also hinted at in later iterations (when the lamps of the Valar where upended by Morgoth the Valar expended their energies in keeping Arda in one piece). Thoughts? I'm surprised no one has argued that after Numenor was dumped into the ocean and the world changed, the Valar, having laid down their governance of Arda so Eru could make the world round and remove the undying lands, no longer can directly affect events in Middle Earth. I saw this argued somewhere once but personally don't agree. </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.