[The Saucepan Man]

Yes, I do not doubt that JRRT considered their emotional attachment to their children. As a father himself, this parental bond would have been only too clear to him. And I do not doubt that he had his reasons for having these characters' parental bond with their children outweighed by other factors.

In the case of Sam, it was his solid and unbreakable friendship with Frodo forged in the adversities that they shared in the Quest of the Ring. I suspect that Sam also wanted to see the Undying Lands and the Elves that lived there, but that desire alone would not have been strong enough to cause him to leave. He wanted to spend his final days with his friend, rather than his family. So I can fully understand Sam's motive, even if I do not fully identify with it.

Arwen is more difficult. It cannot be the allure of the West itself that dictates her cause of action, since she accepted that her fate did not lie there when she chose mortality. As a result of her choice, the Undying Lands were most likely barred to her. If they were not, she clearly had no great desire to go there (as a mortal) since, as posited earlier in this thread, she could have chosen to go with Legolas and Gimli.

Rimbaud suggests that she feels a need to withdraw borne of the Elves' almost instinctive desire to leave Middle-earth and head off West. But why should that desire outweigh her parental love for her children when it did not outweigh her love for the mortal Man that she married and for whom she gave up her immortality (and with it, I suspect, any right to go West)?

Squatter suggests that she was perhaps unable to cope with the thought of living following Aragorn's death. But, if that was the case, would not the comfort of her children's company have made life more bearable? I would put forward another possibility: perhaps she desired to be reunited with her husband beyond the Circles of the World. But that would happen eventually anyway, so why the rush (especially for one who had already lived so long)? In any event, whatever the reason, I cannot understand why it should outweigh the attraction of remaining with her children.

As I said, JRRT no doubt had his reasons for telling it the way that he did. But, for me, it is a matter of character believability. On my current understanding (although I am happy to be educated further), I find it difficult to believe that these characters would act in the way that they did in this matter.

[ September 04, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]