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Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir
If anyone spots a hole in my above arguments, please feel free to share it; I'm not even sure I agree with what I said, which happens often when I'm on the Downs.
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Alright then, here's what I want to poke a hole in, though not in the ARGUMENT, persay:
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Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir
So I don't think Gandalf's advice would have been to push Frodo in, just as Cirdan and Elrond did not push Isildur in. They honored his choice of free will, if indeed it was that, and I think Gandalf would have done the same.
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COULD Cirdan or Elrond have pushed Isildur in?
Isildur was one of the great in middle-earth. He was Numenorian, of high birth, at the height of his life and powers, and was, by all accounts, a great warrior and leader. Look at his accomplishments: saving the sapling of the White Tree, escaping Numenor, founding Gondor, fighting Sauron. He was a great man.
While Elrond and Cirdan, by dint of their much greater age, were certainly wiser than Isildur- and maybe smarter- I doubt if they were physically stronger. Men and Elves were very much comparable, and in the one case that we have a Man raised by Elves- Turin- he grows up to be stronger than the Elves around him. Isildur, a trained warrior, with quite a few years experience behind him, was probably stronger in arms than Elrond, "the Herald of Gil-galad" and Cirdan "the Shipwright".
I doubt if they COULD have pushed him in...
But, as an addendum, even if they could have pushed him in, how does that negate his free will? After all, they were acting of THEIR own free will...
