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Originally Posted by Son of Númenor
The root of this debate is semantics. Davem, change the word 'Music' to 'Eä' and your argument holds up. It is illogical to suggest that because the Numenorean invasion of Valinor was not predicted in the Music the act somehow altered the composition of the Music. Once the Music was laid down in Eru's halls it ceased to be changeable, in the same way that fans cannot go back and edit a live concert from three days ago. You are looking at the Music as a fluid piece that interacts with the physical manifestation of itself; burra is rightly looking at it as an event which took place before Eä was created.
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Where is the textual evidence for the Music being unchangeable? Eru says none may alter the Music
in His despite, not that it is unchangeable at all. I have to ask again, what's the point in creating the world if it is only to be a manifestation of the Music? Is Frodo merely a robot obeying a program?
All Tolkien's great heroes, the ones he focusses on, are
Men or half Men. Hurin, Huor, Turin, Tuor, Aragorn, Frodo, etc or, the classic example to my mind - Earendel. Earendel succeeds in finding his way to the West because he is half mortal & therefore not completely under the ban of the Valar. Men save the world because they can act beyond the Music 'which is as fate to all things else.
Let's not forget that Men are not sung into being by the Ainur - they are Eru's unique creation & have a special destiny both
within & beyond Arda. It seems to me that
H-i's understanding of Eru's 'gift' to Men is the ability to 'drop dead' - if that was the case one could understand Andreth's anger. But it isn't. Men's destiny is to be the saviours of Arda, the key figures in the defeat of evil, & this is due only to the fact that they can act
within the world beyond the confines set by the Music - Eru permitting.
I'm not saying that the destruction of Numenor & the subsequent change of the world altered the composition of the Music, but that it changed what was
played. Music was the initial plan but the plan could be altered.
So, perhaps a 'poll'?
Who believes that all the inhabitants of Arda are robots with no control over what they do? I can't see that Tolkien did, otherwise he would not have introduced Men with their unique gift to act beyond the Music which is as fate to all things else. The very fact that they can act beyond the Music means that the Music is not all controlling fate to all the beings of Arda.
Textual evidence that proves beyond all doubt that
everything is pre-determined by the Music, please?
I can see the argument that it is all 'semantics' - the 'Music' is what was sung by the Ainur & only that. Once it is made manifest & freedom of action (for Men at least) is introduced, we are no longer dealing with the Music. The Music is the blueprint or archetype which is the starting point. Except that the Music was never finished before it was made 'flesh' as Ea. It is equally possible to see Ea as the Music's continuing composition within the field of time & space. Thus, not everything which was 'speculated' in the Music would come to pass - some of the things which were (& which were part of the Music) would not come to fruition because of the changes introduced by Men - hence, the Music would be 'altered' even in its playing. Remember, the Ainulindale occured outside Time & we have no clear conception of how Time & Eternity relate in Tolkien's cosmology. What we are told is that at the 'End' the Music will be played 'aright' - implying it is an ongoing process, rather than a one-off event. The Ainulindale was a failed attempt to 'play' the Music, so was Ea - The
True Music has not been played yet.
From this point of view I think its valid to say that there is an 'Ideal' Music which both Ainulindale & Ea are attempts to play, but neither of them are the Music in Eru's Mind. The Ainulindale may be changed - retrospectively - because the two events Ainulindale & Ea are attempts to produce something else - The Music in Eru's Mind. Events in 'Time' may 'echo' in Eternity & Eternity may be thereby 'altered'. Both playings are 'practice sessions'. I'm not sure 'before' & 'after' (in the sense of Ainulindale>Ea) is the right way to concieve of it. What Eru shows to the Ainur is not what the Valar find when they enter Ea, & their task is to manifest it as far as they can, to make the abstract concrete.
What is 'Music' anyway - they composition or the playing. If you play different notes, introduce new melodies, you change the 'Music'.