davem, strong in arms you are, no doubt
But ther is also
beyond in there, isn't it?
As far as I see, it may be one of the two
1. Beyond - after the point the Vision ceased, thence the Valar have no knowledge (i.e. - after Fading of the Elves and as the Rule of Men begins)
2. Beyond - outside of the Music. But the Music is the pattern along which the whole
World is shaped, so
beyond the world would mean: A. Void B. Halls of Eru C. Whatever else there may be which we know not about.
I hold to option 2 (weak point of option 1 - though Vision ceased before the completion of the Music, the Music itself contains all the history of the world. But when do men leave the world? When they die. Hence, reasoning: the special kind of freedom for men is their death.
***
burra,
Quote:
|
TO BE CONSCISE, SARUMAN HAD FREE WILL AT FIRST, BUT THAT STOPPED PRETTY QUICK
|
We know not when the 'pretty quick' part of it came in. After all, Gandalf's bearing implies Saruman is still free in his choice, and may still chose to come over from the 'dark side' pretty late into the Music.
***
I believe I've found just another analogy to conciliate Predestination/Fate with Free Will:
Imagine elementary particles - movement of each individual particle is unpredictable (Free Will), but all particles combined in a lump of given matter, cancel each other out so lump of matter remains stable and solid (Fate)