[The Only Real Estel]

At the risk of this post being filled with too many quote tags I plan on quoting a few things but mostly limiting myself to referring to things that have been said. Having said that, let me start off some quotes.

Originally posted by Eomer:

"O, but then The Return of the King would be weaker!"

Originally posted by Kitanna:

ROTK couldn't really be weak unless PJ really, really tired at it. With the Siege of Minas Tirith, the Ride of the Rohirrim, and the ulitmate destruction of the Ring I don't think ROTK would have been weaker if Shelob was in TTT.

Kitanna, I think Eomer's above quote that you replied to was directed more towards Frodo & Sam's part of RotK being more boring. Although you can add all the stuff in that everyone has mentioned, I don't think you can deny that it wouldn't be as exciting as Shelob.

Originally posted by Eomer:

What actually happened in the film of The Two Towers was this: Frodo and Sam stumbled through an achingly boring storyline with the pretend Faramir. A major reason Faramir is so bad in the film is because he had to appear as a threat to Frodo. And so they walk about a bit, go to Osgiliath, and end on the most disappointing cliffhanger possible: Gollum speaking to himself about how this mystery female could get the Ring for him.

*groan*

-and also-

Frodo and Sam had nothing to work with so they make Faramir into a supposedly huge threat: which is not exciting and the whole affair totally demeaned Faramir. What a woeful character he turned out to be.

To me, Faramir was bad in the theatrical version. Osgiliath was bad in the theatrical version. I was ticked & upset with the original version of the film, or at least any parts that contained Faramir, for quite sometime (I'm sure a lot of people here can attest to that ). But I think that the Extended Edition of Two Towers did a lot of good to Faramir's character, though I'm not about to say he couldn't still have been a lot better.

As for the 'most disappointing cliff-hanger possible,' I'm not to sure whether I agree with you there or not. I agree that Shelob could have been put into TTT (putting aside the timing element that SpM just mentioned) without too much trouble. Like Eomer said, it was Jackson's choice to have Helm's Deep be the 'be all & end all' of the film, & he could easily have scaled it down a bit to accomodate Shelob and a great ending. I think having Frodo "alive but taken by the enemy" and Sam either alone in Mordor or knocked out outside the gates (however you want to do it) would make a great ending. But I don't think that the current ending is the worst piece of filmmanship (<---I'll be darned if that's not a new word) ever.

At first I was greatly disappointed mainly because I found I wasn't going to get to see Shelob, but if you look at it from a non-book movie goers point of view, it's actually pretty foreboding. TTT ends with Sam's speech (which I liked) & Smeagol reverting back to Gollum, having made the decision to lead the hobbits into a trap in which Frodo & Sam would be killed & the Ring lost to Gollum again. We aren't clued in as to where this trap is, when it will be sprung, or who the heck this 'she' is. Being left in the dark about something big that's going to happen can generate a lot of suspense. I know quite a few people who went ahead & read the books because they couldn't stand to wait & find out who the 'she' was. I think the ending is at the very least ok.

I'm not 100% sure whether Shelob would've been better in TTT or not, but I am sure that she would've worked there, contrary to what Jackson & Boyens keep trying to tell us. And the ending would have been better in my opinion also.