[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by daeron

But that aside, I think there should be no comparison, Luthien was half Maia. But to put the great Morgoth to sleep says something. One must remember that though Sauron was mighty in the first age, he was far greater at the end of the second age, having mastered the lores of Aule in his exile , having learnt a lot from the elves and the forging of the rings of power. Denying death to man as he did for the Nazgul, proves the point.

Sauron was of Aule's kin BEFORE he worked with Morgoth, not after, just for the record. Although I would agree that Sauron appears to have worked on his abilities somewhat between his defeat at Luthien's hands and his re-emergence as Dark Lord II.

Originally Posted by daeron

Also, I think the ability of elves of Middle Earth declined as the ages passed. Those of the third age were considerably weakend in mind and body, especially those who wielded the rings of power. They longed more to return to Valinor, and I believe began to consider Middle Earth as only a temporary residence. So we cannot exactly blame Galadriel for not waging a one on one combat with sauron as Luthien did.

Ah... But what about in the Second Age, when the Rings were new, and Galadriel dared not use hers out of fear, and Elves were still a force to be reckoned with? Elrond and Celeborn were fighting on the forefront of battle, but Galadriel... She was in Lindon, doing very little.

Or during the Last Alliance, when the Ring-situation was similar, but Sauron was weaker? Still no Galadriel... Just Gil-galad and Elrond and Cirdan... And if Gil-galad managed to chop Sauron into itty-bitty pieces with the help of a 'mere' man, then surely the 'great' Galadriel could have done more.

I say we can blame her!

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

While Elrond is descended from Luthien, (and I am not sure that the Maia thing is so significant because Melian had to "become" an elf ot bear a child..but this has been argued elsewhere...) he is also descended from men.

And Men are less than Elves?

As a general race, I would agree that the average Man would seem to have less power than the average Elf, but there are many exceptions to the rule.

Indeed, as Beren, Hurin, Turin, and Tuor (and pretty much all the Numenoreans) will show, all that Men need to match or beat their Elven kin is the training. And even then, for all that they are short-lived, they can still absorb so much as to make a permanent mark.

If it wasn't for mortality, the Elves' days would have been numbered MUCH sooner...

PS: Glad to hear you're an Elrond fan, Mith. I'm a big Elrond-fan (books that is), and much prefer him over Galadriel- for many of the reasons you mentioned.