[davem]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

This is where I likely do not develope much sympathy for the elves, as I regard the notion that the past had a sense of beauty whereas we do not as a false notion, derived from Romantic concepts (you did quote Blake), but concepts which do not necessarily reflect our actual working efforts.

But the 'fact' that 'the past had a sense of beauty whereas we do not' is a given in the story. In Middle earth the past (from the perspective of the Third Age) was more beautiful than the present, so its not 'false' or a product of romanticism, within the story. The lost beauty that the elves yearn for & strive to recreate & embalm is a fact. That says nothing about our world or what we know of 'real world' history & cultural development. From the perspective of Me the Elves were correct.

And, furthermore, in our recognition that some previous standards of "Beauty" represented class and race concepts, I would argue that we are closer now to an understanding that beauty arises from a kind of wholistic or integral quality. Even that the pursuit of beauty itself as an object falsifies the notion. Which is, again, why I dislike the emphasis on the elves's grace, height and proportions as reflecting their beauty as a race. It smacks of old European values. The hobbits might proudly proclaim their worth, and the story might reflect their value, but for the narrator to uphold the elves as an epitome of beauty reflects a notion of beauty which does not pertain in our world--or which increasingly does not. Tastes change.

Again, the Elves' beauty is a given within Me. We don't have to agree with the aesthetic judgements of the characters within that world (or even of JRRT himself), merely accept that within that world those were the criteria on which aesthetic judgements were made.

Back to the 'baggage' thing.......