The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Genetic engineering, the Golden Wood and Gandalf

**lindil** · 06-14-2005, 08:59 PM

Well Alatar, despite being one of those who aided the ban on GMO's in the first gov't [Mendocino county] in the US, and having a friend whose mom developed a brain tumour after, 'coincidentally' being a cell phone 'quality control' person, meaning she turned them on and did a test dial - all day long...

The essence of your post intrigues me.

As usual I found Anguirel has already made an excellent post before me, so, I will concur on the 2 types of knowledge and Gandalf's balance.

I will add that Aule's whole maia clan [Saruman, Sauron and undoubtedly more than a few Balrog's] and his understudies the Noldor, were responsible for darn near all the mischief we see in M-E.

I know there are threads related to this whole topic, but I think the gist of the point is that 'scientific inquiry' divorced from intuition/nature is surely a road paved to hades.

THis is one of JRRT's biggest messages of 'applicability'.

Elvish tendency [when not creating dangerous toys] can be towrds what JRRT termed embalment, an ossification of what is perceived to be as 'the good old days' and their good old ways. Seems harmless enough except for the fact that there is only one present moment for each of us, and for society as a whole, and if we create, or not, within that moment w/ either our hearts or minds closed, we create 'problems'. Knots in the chord as John Crowley phrased it in Engine Summer.

It is these knots, created by Sauron, the ring-making Elves, Saruman etc that the Fellowship and ultimately M-E has to battle through to get to a 'Golden Age' of Aragorn's reconstituted High Kingship. And then of course that new found balance has to be vigiliantly maintained. Re-won, by each person, in each moment...

This reminds me of what did and did not happen after WWII [ not that I'm that old to remember it first hand]. Yes evil was successfully overcome, but by means that were the seeds of our current 'proliferation of weapons of mass destruction'. Certain countries had no problem with them and selling them to their 'friends' but as soon as they leaked into the 'rest' of the world, WHOA!

The intellect is naturally curious and wants to not just explore, but create; there are many scientists undoubtedly who if they could, woulld give a finger or too if they could realistically participate, in trying to create a person, or even an animal from 'scratch' or as close to that as possible.
Just out of the love of the 'science' of it.

Yet what of the implications and aftereffects? Planet of the Apes is becoming less far fetched each day - I just heard about experiments that are injecting primate brains w/ human brain cells... What could be potentially more Morgothian? Sauronian actually as he was reputed to be Morgoth's genetic engineer.

big rant, sorry. But I think this sort of madness is exactly what fueled JRRT to write about a mythical past w/ such a sense of relevance.

--------
One esoteric school of thought [Gurdjieff's] makes it a corner stone that you are not a 'real' human until/ or in moments when: your heart is open, mind clear and one is present and sensing the entirety of one's body. The first time I experienced something of this, I thought, 'this is must be what an Elf experiences'.

It is from this point I think one cen have some healthy idea of 'how' to experiment. Otherwise we end up in one of the traps such as Saruman, Sauron, Feanor and Celebrimbor.

A point on GMO's in relation to this thread: I am reminded of Gandalf's statement to Saruman, to break a thing to understand it is folly. W/ GMO"s are we not breaking and replacing according to our 'wisdom' what creation [ I would say God] has made, and are we really doing it w/ full understanding of the ramifications?

In places where GMO crops are palnted the pollen is spread, and it more or less permanently enters the food chain. Seems like a very dangerous experiment until MUCH more is known. Many strains of native mexican corn are lost forever due to GMO pollen contamination,

It seems to me the same style of tinkering that the Noldor engaged in w/ the Rings. Make first, see what happens later. Of course virtually all exercise of creativity has such built in hazards. But are not the large corporations funding all of this rather Mordor/Saruman/Ted Sandyman like in their desire for short term efficiency and profit, and full of glib assurances of safety....

In short technology and scientific research that is not balanced w/ equal measures of wisdom and intuitive insight into our spritual purpose as humans leads to evil.

06-14-2005, 08:59 PM	#4
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Well Alatar, despite being one of those who aided the ban on GMO's in the first gov't [Mendocino county] in the US, and having a friend whose mom developed a brain tumour after, 'coincidentally' being a cell phone 'quality control' person, meaning she turned them on and did a test dial - all day long... The essence of your post intrigues me. As usual I found Anguirel has already made an excellent post before me, so, I will concur on the 2 types of knowledge and Gandalf's balance. I will add that Aule's whole maia clan [Saruman, Sauron and undoubtedly more than a few Balrog's] and his understudies the Noldor, were responsible for darn near all the mischief we see in M-E. I know there are threads related to this whole topic, but I think the gist of the point is that 'scientific inquiry' divorced from intuition/nature is surely a road paved to hades. THis is one of JRRT's biggest messages of 'applicability'. Elvish tendency [when not creating dangerous toys] can be towrds what JRRT termed embalment, an ossification of what is perceived to be as 'the good old days' and their good old ways. Seems harmless enough except for the fact that there is only one present moment for each of us, and for society as a whole, and if we create, or not, within that moment w/ either our hearts or minds closed, we create 'problems'. Knots in the chord as John Crowley phrased it in Engine Summer. It is these knots, created by Sauron, the ring-making Elves, Saruman etc that the Fellowship and ultimately M-E has to battle through to get to a 'Golden Age' of Aragorn's reconstituted High Kingship. And then of course that new found balance has to be vigiliantly maintained. Re-won, by each person, in each moment... This reminds me of what did and did not happen after WWII [ not that I'm that old to remember it first hand]. Yes evil was successfully overcome, but by means that were the seeds of our current 'proliferation of weapons of mass destruction'. Certain countries had no problem with them and selling them to their 'friends' but as soon as they leaked into the 'rest' of the world, WHOA! The intellect is naturally curious and wants to not just explore, but create; there are many scientists undoubtedly who if they could, woulld give a finger or too if they could realistically participate, in trying to create a person, or even an animal from 'scratch' or as close to that as possible. Just out of the love of the 'science' of it. Yet what of the implications and aftereffects? Planet of the Apes is becoming less far fetched each day - I just heard about experiments that are injecting primate brains w/ human brain cells... What could be potentially more Morgothian? Sauronian actually as he was reputed to be Morgoth's genetic engineer. big rant, sorry. But I think this sort of madness is exactly what fueled JRRT to write about a mythical past w/ such a sense of relevance. -------- One esoteric school of thought [Gurdjieff's] makes it a corner stone that you are not a 'real' human until/ or in moments when: your heart is open, mind clear and one is present and sensing the entirety of one's body. The first time I experienced something of this, I thought, 'this is must be what an Elf experiences'. It is from this point I think one cen have some healthy idea of 'how' to experiment. Otherwise we end up in one of the traps such as Saruman, Sauron, Feanor and Celebrimbor. A point on GMO's in relation to this thread: I am reminded of Gandalf's statement to Saruman, to break a thing to understand it is folly. W/ GMO"s are we not breaking and replacing according to our 'wisdom' what creation [ I would say God] has made, and are we really doing it w/ full understanding of the ramifications? In places where GMO crops are palnted the pollen is spread, and it more or less permanently enters the food chain. Seems like a very dangerous experiment until MUCH more is known. Many strains of native mexican corn are lost forever due to GMO pollen contamination, It seems to me the same style of tinkering that the Noldor engaged in w/ the Rings. Make first, see what happens later. Of course virtually all exercise of creativity has such built in hazards. But are not the large corporations funding all of this rather Mordor/Saruman/Ted Sandyman like in their desire for short term efficiency and profit, and full of glib assurances of safety.... In short technology and scientific research that is not balanced w/ equal measures of wisdom and intuitive insight into our spritual purpose as humans leads to evil. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light. Last edited by lindil; 06-15-2005 at 01:36 AM.