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Old 06-01-2005, 06:45 AM   #109
HerenIstarion
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Five chips to go with my fish

Quote:
but you are trying to change others' minds
Welly well, what have I to say about the quote above? 'Observation changes object observed' would be the motto. Learning others' opinion makes us pick something new at times, and it does not follow the person we picked things up from tried to plant them into our own mind in the first place. It does not follow s/he was not trying to, of course, but both courses of action seem natural. If I hold something to be true (or even True), I'll try to communicate it along. There is no need to get angry with me for that

Quote:
Rather than lighten up (except for H-I, of course!)
Yup, I'm the Mr. Happy here. That's also probably because of quantum.

Back to the titular, though: I still clinch to my original: Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

First reading in its light does not have to be the only time enchantement is present. Knowing what happens next subtracts (probably) from suspense, but that's plot related issue, not the 'World believability/state of being enchanted by it' as a whole.

But I stress on 'willing', for everything around, in the Primary World (the very book I hold in my hand and am supposedly absorbed in) may pull me out by the fact of its mere existence.

Recipe for authors as to how make one's work 'enchanting'? I'm not sure I can come up with one (you would have read my books if I could, I reckon), but let us give it a try:

So, whatever the setting, race of characters or plot, work of fantasy needs:

1. Moral chord 'good' chaps act along of. Closely similar to what is considered 'good' in primary word, to be recognisable without much effort
2. Logical ('natural') interaction of events (plotline, characters' behaviour and scenery/nature likewise). C should be consequence of B and A and so on. More threads to the carpet, more belief. Quantity than has the chance of becoming quality. The thing as complex as ME has signs of 'real world' (moons wane in 28 days, and do it subtly, without 10 foot billboards to advertise the fact, etc) to it, and is therefore believable

That's for believability. For enchantement, some more components are there.

3. General depression, sadness, sense of tragic loss etc etc... (this one belongs to first category likewise)
4. Beauty (whatever that may be, and it too, belongs to first category likewise)
5. Eucatastrophe following 'almost disaster' situation.

I won't expatiate on it, since there were numerous threads concerning the issue before. But the joy is, no doubt, convincing (strangely enough, as not all stories have happy ending in 'real life') and enchanting at the same time. Like if our heart finds it logical for things to end well, and our mind, though knowing it is not always the case, is sufficiently drugged by the event.

All was almost gone to the dogs, but handsome keen-eyed minstrel warrior, young Ultra Super Booper Lord having only seventeen seconds to save the world, saved it on seventeenth, because million to one chances always work.

Was that believable? Maybe not, but is it not enchanting? Neither? Still, if we disassemble LoTR, its backbone is quite similar. But example I've given was extreme. Hence the salt to the soup made of five types of meat - all things moderate, no extremities. If it is a Lord, let him be Ultra Lord, or Super Lord, or Booper Lord, but not all three at once. If you still want him to be all three, make him old and blind of one eye and a bit deaf for the minstrel.

Contrary or thanks to USBL's prowess in world-saving activities, it seems that believability may be there without enchantement, but the latter won't appear unless the world created is believable. I believe Slaughter Number Five and 1984, but I'm not enchanted, I'm rather horrified/repelled.

Believability or enchantement, than? Both.

Acceptance belongs to analysis, concepts present etc, it does not have to play part in belief (or state being enchanted). Suppose someone writes a story where all us turned upside down, Sauron is the hero, Gandalf the villain and so forth. Concepts as presented may not be accepted by the reader, but the book still has the chance of being believable (hopefully not enchanting though). But even without extremeties, does the concept of Eru the Creator bar the enchanted door to readers who do not accept the concept of Creator in the Primary World?

Or, to ask Finrod to my help, when 'heart leaps up in joy', there is belief (and enchantement may follow). Even if the mind does not accept the concept. Or even if it does - it is irrelevant.

Experience - um, is not it present in all works, good and bad? Meaning, unless reader stops reading, he experiences events in the story, creating mental images all along. Experience will be there even if the book does not pull any strings and is put aside after couple of pages. That of the few pages read will remain with the reader after the book is forgotten at all.

Random thoughts, all of them, what with me writing things off without much consideration now. Still, acknowledging the probability of the recipe being spoiled, or working only in my personal case.

cheers
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