[davem]

Originally Posted by Bb

There were other choices available to women like Eowyn in early culture but Tolkien choose the one most predictable according to his own cultural viewpoint. Eowyn, in short, is a late Victorian/ Edwardian imposition upon the kind of early culture whose history/mythology Tolkien was trying to create. I grant that all kinds of narrative imperative makes the marriage with Faramir attractive, but it still represents a perspective limited to Tolkien's own time rather than the universal world view which he tries to create in Middle earth.

But the issue is not whether or not there were 'other choices available to women like Eowyn in early culture' but whether there were other choices in the culture in which she existed - which was not the medieval period of our world, but the end of the Third Age of Middle earth. This is what I'm talking about - whether its bringing a Middle eastern demon into our reading of LotR or our knowledge of Medieval history - they don't apply. Eowyn is a product of her culture not of ours - either now or 800 years ago. This approach will inevitably lead to disenchantment because if we expect Eowyn, or any other 'Middle earthian' character to behave as if they belonged to another cultural or historical epoch we'll inevitably be unconvinced by what they do.

Middle earth may (or may not) reflect Tolkien's own value system - this is why I said that after experiencing the art for what it is in & of itself we should (if we wish) try & find out what the author was telling us. It may be that we then find out that the art he produced wasn't always entirely in accord with what he himself believed. After that we can ask 'What do I think about the art, the author him/herself & what does it mean to me?'. If we take the latter approach in with us from the start we'll never have any chance of being affected by the art itself, only by our own responses to it.

That's why I don't accept that:

Eowyn, in short, is a late Victorian/ Edwardian imposition upon the kind of early culture whose history/mythology Tolkien was trying to create. I grant that all kinds of narrative imperative makes the marriage with Faramir attractive, but it still represents a perspective limited to Tolkien's own time rather than the universal world view which he tries to create in Middle earth.

Because Eowyn is hardly a typical Victorian/Edwardian lady. The question is not whether the end of Eowyn's story - marriage, children, becoming a healer to & guide for her people - is what was expected of a character in a Victorian/Edwardian novel(not to say a real Victorian/Edwardian woman) but whether, within the culture in which she exists it is a convincing ending. I think it is. It is right for her - in my reading. In fact, I can't think of a more satisfying ending for her. She can heal & study lore & be a wife & mother as well as being the second most powerful woman in Middle earth after Arwen. Your alternative, which only allows her the first two (or rather only one of the first two) options, seems insufficient reward for everything she has done & been through. And to condemn it as representing

a perspective limited to Tolkien's own time rather than the universal world view which he tries to create in Middle earth.

is asking a bit much of the poor professor - isn't it inevitable that his perspective was limited by his own time? After all, he didn't possess the psychic ability of Shakespeare (as revealed to us by Mr Steiner) to know the future