[alatar]

Thanks all for the replies.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Sorry, can't help you there, since the soul and spirit are immaterial, outside of the whole evidence thing. Do you doubt the existence of love? mercy? justice? These also are immaterial, and the "evidence" for them can be explained by other factors every bit as easily as with soul and spirit.

I do not doubt that they exist, but each can be reduced to biology.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

To take this slightly away from its religious mysteries overtones, has it occurred to you, Alatar, that even if science solves some of today's mysteries, that this will only open up new questions?

Agree - as I had previously stated. And if they ever 'wrap it all up,' there still remains the question regarding balrog wings...

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Isn't that the nature of mysteries? You solve one, and discover three more? Science will NEVER be done explaining away the mysteries of this universe because every new discovery will reveal more mysteries.

And as far as spiritual matters go though, I doubt that science can ever be brought to bear on them. Some things are a matter of faith and NOT a matter of matter. "Logic", that is the scientific process, may possibly be applicable, but I rather suspect that the central core of religion will retain many of its mysteries

Agree. Religion can hold to its mysteries as long as it likes. Recently I've read that 'belief' and 'faith' actually impart a survival advantage, and so what's not to like about that?

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

The two, science and religion, are man's attempt to explain what is around us (and what is behind and before us...and what is not around us). I do not separate the two, as I do not think they always negate each other.

One of the big differences between the two is that one can be used to predict the future with some degree of certainty. If you or I perform an experiment under the same conditions, we will obtain the same results with a probabilty that is more than chance. If we perform the experiment 100 times, we have an idea how many times the experiment would behave as expected.

However, if you and I were to perform the same ritual (or pray, or whatever the equivalent would be), we have no reason to believe that we can get the same result. Also, multiple attempts do not increase the possibility of success more than random chance would indicate.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

To look at a well known example, scientific theories such as Darwin's are not necessarily compatible with religious theories of creationism, but they have caused us to re-examine religious texts; in this case, the six days of creation are interpreted as six ages of creation. To some, it may be wrong to re-examine a religious text, but consider the amount of scholarship over the 2000 years of Christianity, and it is impossible that re-examination could not have happened many times in those years. The Christianity we have today is a result of 2000 years of thought and without that scholarship it is likely that the religion would have become stilted and eventually died out.

Changing inspired scriptures/beliefs derived from the same could be a slippery slope - where do you stop? And how do you 'test' revelations? Evolution would be thrown out if the data indicated - surely it would take some large evidence, but eventually it would be done. For religion, what evidence would be used to convince those who require none?

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What I am trying to say is that religions do not stand still, just as science does not stand still. Both have much in common, and we need both. Even the atheist has a belief.

Agreed - though some may not admit that a particular religion has changed, or should I say 'evolved?'

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I think that despite the seeming worship of pragmatism in the world today, we all know or hope that there is more to life. We can find that through science and exploring the far reaches of the universe, and equally we can find it through prayer.

Nice thought. Wish I could get as wild about science as some seem to be about their religion.