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Old 02-20-2005, 11:06 AM   #65
Ruoutorin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry
Ruoutorin, your quotation from HoMe can be discounted on the grounds of literary evidence. There is much matter in HoMe and UT which we can discuss, but on the whole such work remains tangential to the texts published in Tolkien's time. After all, as HoMe and UT demonstrate, Tolkien's ideas changed, and changed often, over the decades he wrote his legendarium. Usually, when authors read back into a text, readers are free to consider what the text meant at the time of publication. After all, is there any evidence that Tolkien was thinking about Celebrian when he wrote that passage, or was he trying to establish something general about elves? He often made statements that were generalisations and then had to go back and try to fit the specific incident into the generalisation, or vice versa. This is what is "Tolkienish", a creative mind in constant motion over time and we must capture a snapshot of one moment.

The fact of the matter is that Tolkien wrote a passage which is vague but which allows for a specific interpretation. The indirection is part of his writerly behaviour here. But as Fordim points out in his posts, understanding the linguistic habits of Tolkien's time helps us to understand where he was as a writer here.
Oh pleeeeasseee. So what you're saying is that we can dismiss The Silmarillion as a valid source as well, since it was not "published in Tolkien's time". Therefore we are left with no valid source of the First or Second Ages, but the short texts included in the Appendices of the LotR. The statement in Morgoth's Ring are obviously referring to the Elves in general as they are under the heading of "Laws and Customs of the Eldar". Whereas Tolkien does not contradict these statements anywhere else in his writings they, most certainly, can be considered his final decision on the matter. You say that understanding the linguistic habits of Tolkien's time helps us to understand.... Well, as I pointed out before, Tolkien DOES INDEED use the word "rape" when refering to the Silmarils, so why would he avoid using it when referring to a woman???? Why would he not just come straight out and say what he means instead of alluding to it? He does not seem afraid to do that in any other instance and he does not ever say that he intentionally left the matter vague, as he says with Tom Bombadil in his letters (enigma). Or maybe you consider The Letters of JRR Tolkien invalid as well, since he did not publish them (as if everyone finds it natural to publish letters that they write to friends and relatives, etc. )
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