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Iarwain · 04-05-2003, 06:00 PM

Ok. Here it is. When the people you saw refering to the Valar called them "gods" they did not (unless I am mistaken) mean that they were actually gods. It was probably the use of "gods" as a variable term for Valar. When I said, responding to your first statement that Tolkien called them "gods", I was not saying that Tolkien intended them to be omnipotent beings or that they were the supreme rulers of Arda. It is a mere term that people like to use simply because they can. Tolkien was saying that men had a misconception of the power of the Valar, and called them "gods", not having a full understanding of their natures.

Iarwain

P.S. The Greeks, by the way, did not believe their "gods" to have lived forever. Thus, the gods were not fully supreme. The Universe produced them, and the universe could destroy them as it would.

P.P.S. I suppose I haven't stressed enough that my comparison of the Valar and the dieties of Greek/Norse mythologies is just for personal amusement. Though, once upon a time I thought there was a big significance there, I have learned better since and now realize that Tolkien's brand of mythology is much more developed than the others.

[ April 05, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[ April 05, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

04-05-2003, 06:00 PM	#11
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	Ok. Here it is. When the people you saw refering to the Valar called them "gods" they did not (unless I am mistaken) mean that they were actually gods. It was probably the use of "gods" as a variable term for Valar. When I said, responding to your first statement that Tolkien called them "gods", I was not saying that Tolkien intended them to be omnipotent beings or that they were the supreme rulers of Arda. It is a mere term that people like to use simply because they can. Tolkien was saying that men had a misconception of the power of the Valar, and called them "gods", not having a full understanding of their natures. Iarwain P.S. The Greeks, by the way, did not believe their "gods" to have lived forever. Thus, the gods were not fully supreme. The Universe produced them, and the universe could destroy them as it would. P.P.S. I suppose I haven't stressed enough that my comparison of the Valar and the dieties of Greek/Norse mythologies is just for personal amusement. Though, once upon a time I thought there was a big significance there, I have learned better since and now realize that Tolkien's brand of mythology is much more developed than the others. [ April 05, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ] [ April 05, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ] __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"