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Fordim Hedgethistle · 02-02-2005, 10:05 AM

Very interesting question yavanna II. I would think that there is quite palpably in LotR, at least, a sense of feminine divinity, but not in or through any simple association of character X with Divine Power. Instead, I think that the divine attribute which manifests time and again throughout the story of Pity is best or most highly exemplified by a series of female characters in the story.

The supreme good act that the hero can perform in LotRis to deny the Ring: to renounce personal desire for the sake of other people; to take pity on the world by refusing to put oneself forward. Aragorn does this when he refuses to claim the Ring as his own, Faramir does it, Gandalf does it and – most memorably – Galadriel does it. Pity is, throughout the story, associated with the female characters: Galadriel shows it to Frodo and the world by not taking the Ring, Éowyn is cured by it, Shelob utterly lacks it (and is defeated, at least in part, by the Phial of Galadriel). The Pity that Tolkien works through is not just soup-kitchen charity, but the ability to see that there is something more important than the individual self: something that demands the self puts other concerns and people first. This is, according to Tolkien, an inherently feminine way of thinking, with the most masculine impulse being exemplified by characters like Boromir, Saruman and Sauron: men who put themselves forward, and who show no Pity to anyone.

So it’s not that women demonstrate Pity and are thus divine, but that the feminine trait of Pity (be it demonstrated by men or women) is divine. I think that there’s a lot of Tolkien’s Catholicism at work here. One of the most powerful images in the Catholic imagination is that of the pietá (from which the modern words piety and pity both come), which is the image of Mary holding the dead body of her son and weeping over it. Tolkien saw in this image of Mary an expression of an ideal that I think he valued, and that he shows us in Frodo’s journey into Mordor: in that time between the death of Christ and his rebirth, what is there to keep humanity going and hope alive? There is only the willingness of people to put others first, to say “I will sacrifice myself for others.” Mary exemplified that to Tolkien, for she willingly sacrificed her only son for the good of the world. She took pity on humanity.

02-02-2005, 10:05 AM	#16
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Very interesting question yavanna II. I would think that there is quite palpably in LotR, at least, a sense of feminine divinity, but not in or through any simple association of character X with Divine Power. Instead, I think that the divine attribute which manifests time and again throughout the story of Pity is best or most highly exemplified by a series of female characters in the story. The supreme good act that the hero can perform in LotRis to deny the Ring: to renounce personal desire for the sake of other people; to take pity on the world by refusing to put oneself forward. Aragorn does this when he refuses to claim the Ring as his own, Faramir does it, Gandalf does it and – most memorably – Galadriel does it. Pity is, throughout the story, associated with the female characters: Galadriel shows it to Frodo and the world by not taking the Ring, Éowyn is cured by it, Shelob utterly lacks it (and is defeated, at least in part, by the Phial of Galadriel). The Pity that Tolkien works through is not just soup-kitchen charity, but the ability to see that there is something more important than the individual self: something that demands the self puts other concerns and people first. This is, according to Tolkien, an inherently feminine way of thinking, with the most masculine impulse being exemplified by characters like Boromir, Saruman and Sauron: men who put themselves forward, and who show no Pity to anyone. So it’s not that women demonstrate Pity and are thus divine, but that the feminine trait of Pity (be it demonstrated by men or women) is divine. I think that there’s a lot of Tolkien’s Catholicism at work here. One of the most powerful images in the Catholic imagination is that of the pietá (from which the modern words piety and pity both come), which is the image of Mary holding the dead body of her son and weeping over it. Tolkien saw in this image of Mary an expression of an ideal that I think he valued, and that he shows us in Frodo’s journey into Mordor: in that time between the death of Christ and his rebirth, what is there to keep humanity going and hope alive? There is only the willingness of people to put others first, to say “I will sacrifice myself for others.” Mary exemplified that to Tolkien, for she willingly sacrificed her only son for the good of the world. She took pity on humanity. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.