[lindil]

Ahh, finally a thread with more interseting aspects [to me at least] than I can possibly hope to respnod too - Wonderful!


Dave M:

Maybe Tolkien wasn't making any 'point', just trying to create a world in conformity with the mythological archetypes he was inspired by.

Well he specifically points out via Gildor that the Hobbits can shut themselves in but not shut out the world completely as it is not 'their shire'. So I think that there is most certainly much 'applicability' to be found in the various relationships amongst the gated and less gated communities.


The same ultimately proved true even of the ultimate gated community [well one of 2] in the third age - Lothlorien.

Lothlorien's multifaceted and even paradoxical place in the LotR and even more so the Legendarium is beyond my abilities or temporal constraints to fully dileneate here, byut just a few aspects will I think show just how subtle and complex the 'gated community' reality of M-E is.

Point 1 - Lothlorien was dangerous to mortals. Any place that reduces an entire group of grown males to tears upon leaving is not for everybody.

Is it Beleg in the Silmarillion [ or Finrod on the Athrabeth? or ?] who comments to the effect of 'perhaps indeed it is better if men and Elves have little to do with each other] - the differnce in their 'gifts' from Eru is radical and can easily [especially for men] lead to jealousy and misunderstanding, and probably not infrquently to a certain arrogance fro Elves. Lothlorien was seriously potent medicine, having it open to the 'public' as was Bree or to a lesser degree Rivendell, as a rest stop over the pass of Caradrhas would have benn foolish. Many could not have handled it. Aragorn call's it the heart of Elvendom on earth, and if we take the analogy one step further, as the heart of an organism it needs to work in concert with many other co-factors, ALL intrinsic to it's function. Lothlorien is not the skin or voice of Elvendom on earth [i.e.the parts that interact with the outside world], it has a totally differnt function, a haven where 'essence' can grow, like a child in the womb [ the ultimate gated community!].

Point 2 - Does this have it's downsize? of course, but we must be careful I think in judging Lothlorien, because we are given few glimpses directly into the psyche of it's inhabitants. One thing I will mention id that I think Galadriel, had she ruled as an autocrat there, would have been far more outwardly active with Lorien's substantial if limited military might, but from all apparent evidence - the Elves were somewhat insular, and could be led to fight Dol Guldor and defend Rivendell from Angmar, but it is rather clear that interaction with Gondor more or less disappeard early on in the Third Age [note Farmair's comments to Frodo when he learns Boromir had been there] and seems never to have had direct contact with Rohan till the End of the Third Age when the Eomer/Gimli dispute was settled! Lorien's Elves it is said in UT did not even venture to Fangorn, though Legolas is more interested in returning there than to his kin in the heart of Elvendom on Earth.

I think this tells us several things:

That all of the races of M-E tended toward not just a sort of inter-race centricity, but that the divide between there different fates makes it inevitable and natural.

Does that mean that most communites can not profit from a healthy dose of multi-cultural exchange?

Of course not, JRRT displays this very thing as one of the crowning acheivments of Gandalf's labors [See Quest for Erebor in UT and Annotated Hobbit] and his gift if you will to Aragorn that for the first time in the history of Men, there is no 'Incarnation of Evil' to fight and there is peace and diverse and educated contacts among every race in M-E.
Ents -Hobbits - The three classes of Men - Elves and Dwarves. There will always be gates in Erebor and Thranduils halls, just like bethberry I inmagine you have a front door with a usable lock [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] .

But there is something of an evolution in race relations going on, though to turn back to Lorien, it can only really happen, when Lorien's unique 'Valinorean' timelessness has been destroyed.

Of course one can go to far in walling oneself off, and I am personally deeply suspicious of the wisdom of Aragorn granting [seemingly at his own idea it seems to me, not at the instigation of the Hobbits, though Letters or HoME 9 may say something onthis I may have missed] the Shire to be a Big People free zone when Dwarves [and Elves] still need to use the Road that predates the very Hobbits existence! But as was mentioned above, this is in a sense the begin their inevitable transformation into 'little folk' like the red hatted gnomes of the 70's coffe-table book fame.

~~~

Every community by it's very nature has gates of some kind, even if it's borders are wide open to travel. Customs, mores and folkways all create barriers even as they serve to bond, for better or worse, those who participate in them.

Ultimately 'gated communities' ideally serve as spirtual wombs, for a place of sfaety during a period of gestation or convalesence. Monasteries and isolated spiritual communities have been the major source for me of growth and forming of whatever small degree of insight I have. I would not see them traded for anything else in the world. Indeed several deffernt cultures have the saying that 'The world is sustained by the prayers of the monastics'.
I do not think JRRT would have to much to disagree with there. though that would be no exscuse to try and turn everywhere into a monastery or convent.

[ April 02, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]