[Bêthberry]

Hello Michael Wilhelmson.

Originally Posted by Michael Wilhelmson

THIS THREAD IS FOR CONJECTURE ONLY! NO SERIOUS DEBUNKING!

Are you aiming for lighter fare than Books discussion? Perhaps you missed your mark and intended this for the Mirth forum?

First of all, I would like to start this thread off by giving a few of direct relationships I have noticed involving the LOTR political climate:

Gondor --> A kingless kingdom --> Britain?
Isildur --> A king who gave fell due to temptation --> Edward
Denethor --> An ineffective "steward of the state --> Chamberlain
Faramir --> A true steward --> Churchill
Seige of Gondor --> A great state seiged for many years --> Battle of Britain

Isengard --> A place of wisdom fallen into darkness --> Germany
Uruk-Hai --> "Superior orc-men" --> Nazis
Ents --> A pacifistic society brought to rage by war --> America?
Rohan --> A mobile agrarian state who enters late --> America
Theoden --> A crippled leader at first --> FDR (Crippled by public isolationism)

Feel free to dispute or support!

Child has presented some of the evidence which refutes this direct equation. While I do not think we always have to accept, without question, an author's claims, I certainly think that our readings and interpretations become more meaningful for a greater number of readers if we consider how our ideas relate to the texts provided by the author.

The "Foreward to the Second Edition" suggests not only that Tolkien did not intend LotR to be read as an allegory of World War II, but that he himself disaproved of how the allies were fighting that war. Pace the line about how his story would have had the Ring "seized and used against Sauron". Tolkien's Letters also suggest his intellectual disapproval of those efforts. It seems unlikely in this case that Churchill would be a viable model for Faramir.
To the best of my knowledge, American men are not missing their entwives. Nor do I think the United States has ever been a "pacifistic" state, if by that word you mean "pacifist" Isolationist yes, but certainly in its internal relations not pacifist regarding Amerinds or Blacks.

in reply to Saucepan's comment that Britain is not a kingless state.
Britain- The king abdicated for the love of a woman, much like Tolkien himself, in Beren and Aragorn. Since then, the Queen has taken a much lesser role in the affairs of state.
Tolkien, being a huge romantic, might have hoped for the "Return of the King", or a event that could give Britain a new sense of pride and nationalism. [my bolding]

You seem to have forgotten that between the abdication of Edward and the coronation of Elizabeth, the head of state for Britain was King George, for some thirteen or fourteen years. And I wonder what is in those little state boxes that Her Majesty reads every day?

Further, I am not aware of any instance where Tolkien himself "abdicated for the love of a woman"

Some brief replies to some simian thoughts.