Littleman, thanks for another well-reasoned and eloquent post. Having noticed the references in Tolkien's contextual writings and (more indirectly) in his works to 'reformers' and 'modernisers', I think you are right in identifying the intensely nostalgic sensibility at work. I am reminded a little of the conscious attempt by the Brothers Grimm to re-infuse Germanic folklore with resonance in their interpretation of old fairy tales, or of the Pre-Raphaelite attempts to rekindle English mysticism and a nostalgic vision of man in harmony with nature, and so on.
Aiwendil, there is a more to the art and politics issue than you seem to acknowledge. The issue of motive and function in art is quite naturally an important issue for anyone with a conscience - the "as long as it's beautiful" argument is arguably both naive and dangerous. Do you feel able to accept unconditionally (or indeed preferentially) art which either deliberately, or by omission, serves to perpetuate oppression or legitimise injustice, on the basis that it has aesthetic merit? An example might be the output by some of the talented artists who provided propaganda for the Nazi regime. There are many examples of this, as well as cultural appropriation ... and whilst one can abstractly appreciate the craft involved, the role of the art is crucial, and an important issue for the artist themselves to deal with.
Even more straightforward is the issue of how to spend your time - to fiddle while Rome burns, as it were, in a timeless bubble of artistic purity, while there are battles to be fought with words and deeds, or to act. These certainly were live issues (note the 'Artists Rifles' in the Spanish Civil War, Orwell etc.), and perhaps still are, certainly in Europe, South Africa and so on. This is the kind of thing I was referring to in my biographical aside, not some cerebral afterthought whilst strolling amidst the Old Masters in their g(u)ilt-edged frames [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
As to the value of the "10,000 monkeys writing Shakespeare" ... it seems to me that the fact that another human being uses craft and conscience to create a work of art is absolutely central to art itself. If it is just "the end result" that matters, then you might as well say that a mountain is art, or a cloud. And indeed, this is sometimes posited by those arguing for God as the ultimate designer. But in effect this takes you to the very postmodern view that 'everything is art', and renders any concept of aesthetics meaningless.
Stephanos, the 'instant-gratification' culture was part of what I was referring to when I said we're to blame. But I don't go quite as far as Littlemanpoet in blaming the child-centred educational theory that became de riguer from the 60s onwards. As I said before, the complaint of falling standards and despair at 'how bad things have got' is a pretty consistent feature of cultural commentary since civilisation began!
In relation to gaming and its influence I think Littleman has a fairly robust point. No matter how thoughtful and talented the DM is, taking what are culturally significant archetypes of myth and narrative out of their original setting and mixing them up according to one's personal taste in the context of a points-scoring game - with none of the original (and important) moral aspect or any real spirituality - is in the end a superficial exercise. But that doesn't make it a waste of time, it is an opportunity for ingenuity and enjoyment, and life can be miserable enough, so I have no problem with doing it myself - whilst keeping things in perspective. I've been there in a BIG way, so I am not speaking as an outsider!
So many excellent and thought-provoking points have come up in this thread that I feel as though my original question has been answered many times over. I'm continually amazed and impressed by the depth and quality of argument here. Despite my earlier rants, the content of this thread has made me more optimistic that there is a large body of discerning and thoughtful readers out there for whom good authors will want to write good fantasy ... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Peace
[ April 08, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]
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