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...the plot is just as important as the magic if not more so. Magic, in my opinion, should just provide an aspect of the setting of the story; magic should not be THE story for its own sake.
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This was written on the first page of this marvelous thread! Haven't had a chance to read through all of it, but I do agree with the above.
The Final Fantasy series along with Tolkien does incorporate magic, and I think that's what turns people off. Many of my friends won't pick up that game simply because of the word 'fantasy'. They immediately think "Dragons, magic, save the princess, valiant hero, the end" But this isn't the case at all. They ignore that there IS a plot and there IS a theme to it all. The misunderstanding of fantasy being strictly escape fiction is what I think gives it the bad rap that some say it has.
But seriously, who said fantasy must be escape? Perhaps, I think, it originated as escape, in the fairy tales and children stories we all listened to. What Tolkien and the FF series, and various other authors did, (in my own opinion) was make it deeper. They gave it that deeper meaning, but obviously you can't just chuck old beliefs out the window overnight, so the fantasy genre retained that escapist stereotype.
I say this is wrong, and that you are right. Fantasy and sci-fi, every genre is so much more because of the greatness of the authors who commit themselves to it. Romance, too, has a bad rap of 'lovey dovey' feel, and you mentioned Danielle Steel, I mention Nora Roberts.
Also, there's the actual bad fantasy author who dwells on these stereotypes, in fact, keeping with the old beliefs that isn't helping the genre at all. But, then again, neither is it opressing it. Fantasy, I think, comes in two forms. There's the Fairy Tale, typical, story of prince saves princess. It's a feel good story, and who says that's wrong? But to mix this form with the serious form. Of course, the serious form that I believe Tolkien reigns King in (hehe [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]) is escape as well, though it has that 'something' that makes it more. There is theme, a definate plot, developed and round characters who are not static, nor flat. Even Gimli, hardly THE main character, went through a big change in LOTR.
*sighs* I think I lost my train of thought. I need to read through this whole thread before I come with anything concrete.