[Jessica Jade]

I think it's somewhat misleading to say that Tolkien wrote because he had something he wanted to say. That's what modern authors of "serious" literature do. Tolkien certainly had no explicit "message" in his writing. He was, in a way, even more serious than those authors.

You misunderstood what I was trying to say--when I said "say something" i didn't mean that he had an explicit message he wanted to get across (seeing that Tolkien disliked allegory), he "had something to say" in that he had a story he really wanted to tell. (hence LOTR, The Sil, etc.). He valued good stories for their own sake, not the hidden meanings and symbolism and so forth.

Orcs didn't go around saying "I was only doing my job. They new they were evil and loved it!

I don't exactly agree that they knew they were evil and loved it. In The Silmarillion, chaper 3, it says:

"And deep in their dark hearts the Orcs loathes the Master (Melkor) whom they served in fear, the maker only of their misery."

"Regular Elvish trick" they say, thinking that the "great Elvish warrior" (Sam) left his companion (Frodo) behind. They seem to view Elves as immoral. Isn't that exactly the way the Nazis or al-Qaeda operate?

Agreed. Oftentimes Evil doesn't really think it is evil, right? They think they're doing the right thing and that the ones who oppose them are the evil ones. They believe that their evil has a just cause, as do the Nazis and al-Qaeda.

We all know that evil still exists in this world, though we may break it down in to small bites of "greed" or "pettyness", or "racism", or "unfairness". It's all pervasive, and very hard to pin down.

very well said. Maybe that's why many modern critics consider fantasy impossibly unrealistic? Because in today's world evil is more subtle and doesn't declare itself openly the way it does in fairy tales.

(Galadriel as an example) didn't come off.
This did not overall destroy the enjoyment of the movie for a vast majority of movie goers, but they were flaws.

True, yet I still admire PJ for making the movie so that it could appeal to everyone, even those who knew nothing about Tolkien.
Very good point, also, Goldwine, about how commercial sucess does not equal true greatness. Just look at the music industry today! From Britney Spears, to Nsync to all those other imitators--they're making millions, sure, but who can say that they are truly artists?

They have made it cool to be a cynic. It is a badge of honor in artistic circles, and a darling of critics.

Agreed! Have you ever noticed that most people think that misery and suffering is what makes literature and art "deep"? As if unhappiness and despair is where all the deep stuff is! *snorts with contempt* It disgusts me and proves how superficial they are, as well as how little they really know.

I agree with you also, Aiwendil, that too many people have forgotten the real purpose of art (which includes music, lit, film, etc.) is to entertain. Too many "artists" do what they do for all the wrong, insincere reasons. They don't do it because they want to communicate what's in their heart, they do it for approval from others, fame, or money. And if their motives are insincere, how do they expect the audience to connect and to be moved by it? It's like someone saying that he/she wants to be an actor because he/she wants to be famous, not because he/she loves acting. It makes one wonder what the world is coming to. So many have strayed so far from the true purpose of doing things that the real purpose is almost wholly lost.

The better works of any genre have superceded classification.

This is similar to something that Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins said:
"Great music completely obliterates any conceptions of genre."
I generally agree. I love LOTR, and to me it's definitely not just "another fantasy novel." Neither is The Matrix (one of my favorite films) merely a sci-fi flick. As for Matrix, many don't consider it scifi because they say it's just altogether an awesome movie and exceeds classification. However, the fact that it's considered sci-fi doesn't make anyone think less of it. The fact that LOTR is fantasy doesn't bother me at all, because to me, it's just a fantastic masterpiece.

Learning to distinguish good from bad is the inevitable and unfortunate result of growing older; the classification of books into genres and then the creation of assumptions about that genre prohibit the growth of minds. The better writers are above having their books delineated into some sort of literal conformity.

Good point. That's a big problem in the world today. People feel that they must classify things, that everything must fit in somewhere in the grand scheme. A lot of critics definitely need to realize that, before they pigeon-hole Tolkien books so thoughtlessly. People should look at things individually and not see everything as part of a group.