[davem]

Originally Posted by Aldarion

Remember that while the orcs are an extremely warlike race, there have to be other functions taking place - gathering of food, reproduction, just to name two. We also have examples of Orcish art:

As for Orcs being intellegent (multilingual, for example), there were many intellectuals that took part in the holocaust.

I think this is the point Tolkien is making. These Orcs are not simple brutes. They have plans & desires:

For a moment Pippin was silent. Then suddenly in the darkness he made a noise in his throat: gollum, gollum. 'Nothing, my precious," he added. The hobbits felt Grishnakh's fingers twitch. 'O ho!" hissed the goblin softly. "That's what he means, is it? Oho! Very ve-ry dangerous, my little ones." 'Perhaps," said Merry, now alert and aware of Pippin's guess. 'Perhaps; and not only for us. Still you know your own business best, Do you want it, or not? And what would you give for it?" 'Do I want it? Do I want it?" said Grishnakh, as if puzzled; but his arms were trembling. "What would I give for it? What do you mean?"

'Do I want it? This is not a souless 'robot' but a fully sentient being who can imagine himself with the Ring in his possession, a ruler. And perhaps this is the moment he awakes to that realisation. The Ring can work on his precisely because he is a self-conscious individual.

But for some reason this self-consciousness doesn't bring with it a capacity for empathy & compassion - which is what we're taught should happen. So, the Orcs are 'closed off' from that aspect of 'humanity'.

If these Orcs are slaves they are willing slaves - but then why would Gandalf say he pities even Sauron's slaves? Or isn't he including Orcs in this? But then the question arises: aren't there any Men who are slaves of Sauron who are as bad as Orcs? Who have sacrificed their humanity & enjoy the suffering they inflict?

This just leaves us with SpM's question - What is the difference between 'bad' Orcs & equally 'bad' men?

Perhaps its not that Tolkien messed up & couldn't work out a viable explanation for Orcs; perhaps it goes deeper, into issues of metaphysics, into the mystery of Good & Evil, & so, cannot be explained away. Good is & so is Evil - even if it is a 'corruption' it isn't nothing. After all, one could say that Orcs are a 'corruption' of Elves in the same way - yet they are not 'nothing'.

Perhaps its not a 'question' after all, perhaps its a 'statement'. Orcs are all evil, & that's simply a Mystery beyond us (& beyond Tolkien). Tolkien won't offer us any easy answers because there aren't any.