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Old 04-01-2003, 03:43 PM   #28
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Sting

That Gandalf was equal to Sauron in their beginning does not tell us all that much about their status at the end of the third age. Most importantly, Gandalf was at that point incarnate and was thus clearly of lesser personal power than he was in the beginning. Also, I'm not sure that "coeval and equal" necessarily means precisely equal in overall strength/power. It could be more loosely interpreted as meaning that they belonged to the same order of beings and that they were comparable in strength.

Quote:
I did not break it down into specific areas. I assert that Gandalf as a whole was greater than Saruman.
Okay. But what I was pointing out was that your quotes about Gandalf's greater wisdom and greater moral fortitude do not prove that he was greater than Saruman overall - merely that he was greater in those ways. But if we are talking about one's ability to control the Ring (as opposed to one's ability to resist the Ring), then I don't think that moral fortitude would come into it at all, though wisdom certainly would. My main point was that we have no proof that Gandalf was greater than Saruman (or vice versa) overall. What we have is evidence that each was greater than the other in certain areas.
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