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Boromir88 · 11-05-2004, 04:28 PM

Interesting topic Fordhim. This sort of reminds me of the comedious Terry Gilliam movie Brazil. Terry Gilliam was the only american actor in the famous Monty Python troupe, he created a movie called Brazil, which is based off of George Orwell's 1984

Brazil, however a comedious movie, you have to be able to laugh at yourself, laugh at society. For that's what the movie does. It mocks our very way of living, and is indeed "subversive" to our current society. It mocks how we have changed our Christmas tradition to a fat jolly man that puts presents under a tree, it mocks hour our society is now filled with constant advertisements. There's all sorts of "technoligical (yes I made that up) inventions." But none of them work, and of course Terry Gilliam being part of the Monty Python troupe gets his cracks at the Government.

Do I think Middle-Earth is indeed "subversive?" It depends upon how you look at things, I think Tolkien is definately trying to get his points off, about certain problems in our society. For example the "industrialization," which Tolkien so fondly disliked. I think Tolkien deals more with morals then with trying to be "subversive." He tries to teach us the importance of friendship, companionship, hope, faith...etc.

As for Saruman a man of industry, a man who creates all sorts of machinery, orcs, rings, trying to become more powerful, Tolkien reinforces the "nature vs. Industrial theme," which was maybe one of the more important themes of the time. The idea that industry only causes death, pain, leads to war, leads to destruction. The Ents step in as the nature force, to combat the "industry." Authors tend to write upon what the "current" world is like, they tend to "follow the crowd," or maybe they will intentionally try to lead into a whole different "literary change." If you get my meaning, in their writing they will either follow the current literary writing, and ideals, or they will purposely do the opposite to try to form a different "literary change." During this time I think we get to see Tolkien write a lot upon the current world he was around, the world of industrial growth, a world of war, a world where women didn't get much say. Do I find it "subversive?" No, and I don't find Brazil "subversive." I think we just got to step back and realize, it's only the truth, it's not "subversive" at all. Brazil, is exactly right in the time we live in with large corporations, constant advertisements, these "new and improved" items that aren't better then the old...etc. I hope that makes sense, and I hope I actually caught the point of this thread

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11-05-2004, 04:28 PM	#10
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,519	Interesting topic Fordhim. This sort of reminds me of the comedious Terry Gilliam movie Brazil. Terry Gilliam was the only american actor in the famous Monty Python troupe, he created a movie called Brazil, which is based off of George Orwell's 1984 Brazil, however a comedious movie, you have to be able to laugh at yourself, laugh at society. For that's what the movie does. It mocks our very way of living, and is indeed "subversive" to our current society. It mocks how we have changed our Christmas tradition to a fat jolly man that puts presents under a tree, it mocks hour our society is now filled with constant advertisements. There's all sorts of "technoligical (yes I made that up) inventions." But none of them work, and of course Terry Gilliam being part of the Monty Python troupe gets his cracks at the Government. Do I think Middle-Earth is indeed "subversive?" It depends upon how you look at things, I think Tolkien is definately trying to get his points off, about certain problems in our society. For example the "industrialization," which Tolkien so fondly disliked. I think Tolkien deals more with morals then with trying to be "subversive." He tries to teach us the importance of friendship, companionship, hope, faith...etc. As for Saruman a man of industry, a man who creates all sorts of machinery, orcs, rings, trying to become more powerful, Tolkien reinforces the "nature vs. Industrial theme," which was maybe one of the more important themes of the time. The idea that industry only causes death, pain, leads to war, leads to destruction. The Ents step in as the nature force, to combat the "industry." Authors tend to write upon what the "current" world is like, they tend to "follow the crowd," or maybe they will intentionally try to lead into a whole different "literary change." If you get my meaning, in their writing they will either follow the current literary writing, and ideals, or they will purposely do the opposite to try to form a different "literary change." During this time I think we get to see Tolkien write a lot upon the current world he was around, the world of industrial growth, a world of war, a world where women didn't get much say. Do I find it "subversive?" No, and I don't find Brazil "subversive." I think we just got to step back and realize, it's only the truth, it's not "subversive" at all. Brazil, is exactly right in the time we live in with large corporations, constant advertisements, these "new and improved" items that aren't better then the old...etc. I hope that makes sense, and I hope I actually caught the point of this thread .