The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Science AND Faith in Middle-earth

davem · 11-02-2004, 10:32 AM

I can't help thinking that for Tolkien the magical (or more precisely the miraculous) is what's of central importance. The 'science' must be convincing, but must not exclude the miraculous. The miraculous is proof of the existence of Eru. Simply, there are things in M-e which cannot (& I think this is deliberate on Tolkien's part) be explained scientifically. Possibly this is Tolkien's reaction to modern science, which attempts (& goes a long way in succeeding) to explain away the supernatural. I suspect Tolkien wanted a world in which thee supernatural simply cannot be discounted. Eucatastrophe is not scientific, it is miraculous. Specifically, it is not technological: eucatasrophe is only possible in a world where miracles are possible. Eucatastrophe, after all, is not simply an emotional response (ie it is not purely 'psychological' - not merely an emotional reaction to an everyday event or 'fluke' happening). Eucatastrophe is an inner response to an outer, miraculous event.

In short, the eucatastrophic 'feeling' is our response to a miracle, & that miracle 'proves' that there is more to life than scientific materialism. We aren't responding simply to the fact that our heroes escaped by the skin of their teeth, but to the FACT that a loving God, Eru, cared enough about them to intervene & save them. That intervention proves that God exists, loves His creation, & therefore that the world, & our lives in it, are not random events. Eucatastrophe proves we matter, & that death is not the end, that the Universe is a creation, not a random event. Eucatastrophes prove that it all means something - all our struggles & sufferings, all our pain & loss & sacrifice.

The 'science' of M-e (ie the fact that we can construct 'scientifically' convincing accounts for certain events in M-e) serves to convince us that it could have existed; the 'magic' - the ultimate manifestation of which is eucatastrophe - is what convinces us of its meaning & 'value'.

I think M-e attracts us because of the magic - we don't 'tolerate' the magic because the 'science' has convinced us of that world's 'reality', we actually 'tolerate' the 'science', because the 'magic' makes that world meaningful.

11-02-2004, 10:32 AM	#6
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I can't help thinking that for Tolkien the magical (or more precisely the miraculous) is what's of central importance. The 'science' must be convincing, but must not exclude the miraculous. The miraculous is proof of the existence of Eru. Simply, there are things in M-e which cannot (& I think this is deliberate on Tolkien's part) be explained scientifically. Possibly this is Tolkien's reaction to modern science, which attempts (& goes a long way in succeeding) to explain away the supernatural. I suspect Tolkien wanted a world in which thee supernatural simply cannot be discounted. Eucatastrophe is not scientific, it is miraculous. Specifically, it is not technological: eucatasrophe is only possible in a world where miracles are possible. Eucatastrophe, after all, is not simply an emotional response (ie it is not purely 'psychological' - not merely an emotional reaction to an everyday event or 'fluke' happening). Eucatastrophe is an inner response to an outer, miraculous event. In short, the eucatastrophic 'feeling' is our response to a miracle, & that miracle 'proves' that there is more to life than scientific materialism. We aren't responding simply to the fact that our heroes escaped by the skin of their teeth, but to the FACT that a loving God, Eru, cared enough about them to intervene & save them. That intervention proves that God exists, loves His creation, & therefore that the world, & our lives in it, are not random events. Eucatastrophe proves we matter, & that death is not the end, that the Universe is a creation, not a random event. Eucatastrophes prove that it all means something - all our struggles & sufferings, all our pain & loss & sacrifice. The 'science' of M-e (ie the fact that we can construct 'scientifically' convincing accounts for certain events in M-e) serves to convince us that it could have existed; the 'magic' - the ultimate manifestation of which is eucatastrophe - is what convinces us of its meaning & 'value'. I think M-e attracts us because of the magic - we don't 'tolerate' the magic because the 'science' has convinced us of that world's 'reality', we actually 'tolerate' the 'science', because the 'magic' makes that world meaningful. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."