[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

does that mean either that Tolkien was wrong about fairy, or that The Silm is in fact not a fairy tale but something else? For instance, is it more fitting to describe it as myth rather than as fairy? Are the two terms interchangeable?

Glad you brought this up; I am not sure they are. I don't necessarily associate Beowulf with faery-tale (I've been going back and forth with this most of the afternoon) but rather heroic epic, or something like that. (I am no expert in this, I assure you.) To me the Silm is more like Beowulf than it is like Smith of Wooton Major (A superb faery tale.) Do I expect a eucatastrophe from Beowulf? Should I? I do not know. I have read it three times, and the first time did not grasp much; the second and third times, I understood more, but I was still getting used to the style of telling the story. Would someone familiar with the storytelling style experience a eucatastrophe hearing the tale told? I do not know. Are there other Downers who have and if so, can you please discuss it briefly?

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

...he does not mean mere delight or simple romance and he distinguishes it from Tragedy in drama. He means something which helps free us from human limitations. And he means something altogether unexpected, unanticipated, even undeserved. The words Tolkien uses suggest the rarity of this effect.

Here you take Kuruharan's stance (I think) in making the eucatastrohe primarily a story element, rare, islolated and one-per-story. (I can respect that.)

However in the other thread, we discussed that LotR (for instance) is not one story, but many stories woven together; and each of those stories may have a eucatastrophe within them. (I should add that Kuruharan was never comfortable with this as far as I can recall.)

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Tolkien also suggests that the experience is very much a readerly experience. Note Tolkien uses the word "effect," a consequence or result rather than "affect," an inward disposition.

Thanks for pointing that out.

We need to be precise and specific about what we say Tolkien said.
And we need to remember that we are not all called in the same way.

Precisely and specifically, Bb, what are you getting at here in terms of Eucatastrophe? I agree that we are all not called in the same way, but I don't think you and I mean the same thing when we say it! :P