[Man-of-the-Wold]

As much as I [err...] enjoy reading about Lush's allusions and what not, I must take some exception to the points about Catholics. While conservatism and sexual naïveté reign supreme in the hierarchy of my chosen church, the positions against abortion and contraception reflect other origins. Also, what you have in the Christian church is the agonizing guilt handed down from the brilliant St. Augustine in reaction to the consequences of what may have been basic enough liaisons in his youth, or much great licentiousness. Still, biblically speaking, sex between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman is not really a sin.

Clearly, however, it is fair to say that JRRT was discrete about sexual matters, and completely uninterested in addressing them in his work in any obvious way. This I would ascribe not so much to his catholicism, nothwithstanding being raised in the household of a priest, but rather to Victorian mores, and being a good ole' fashioned guy.

Something that surprisingly I did not find in scanning this long thread is that the story of Lúthien and Beren is a fundamental tale of his, which by some accounts was conceived in his childhood. More compelling is to consider that on his and his wife's tombstones is inscribed the words Lúthien and Beren by his request. Letters underscore how much she was his Tinuviel.

In his youth, because of the difference in their ages, JRRT and his future wife could not see each other for several years, by his agreement with his priest guardian, until he was of a certain age. (Sounds a bit like Aragorn, Arwen and Elrond) As for the story of Beren & Lúthien, I think what one is really sensing there is the actual tension that existed with his passion for his wife.

In both cases, though, I see no reason to assume anything but true chastity before betrothal/marriage as mutually and ritually blessed by both families. Lúthien's "slipping" from Beren arms means just that, in that they had been embracing -- ie, just hugging & kissing, amorous maybe, but only first base. Sorry.

If they had already "coupled" then there would have been little point in going before Thingol for his "blessing."

Victorianism and chivalry aside, JRRT was really aspiring for a pre-Fall model of love. Where sexual relations were good and timeless, and death after a long Númenórean-like life is also only another stage in the journey to Eru. Beren, Faramir and Aragorn, as well as Elves in general, are not perfect and contain something of the Marring of Arda by Morgoth, but they are not supposed to be as fallen as you, me and most of the race of Men in Middle-Earth. It's just different.

With some of the oblique references to evil and torment one might assume something of Sodom and Gormorrah. But JRRT leaves that to the imagination.

With Beren and Lúthien, I don't think he means to do that at all, except to affirm them as a noble model of what true love can and will endure. With all of the swordplay, towers and entering into caves and hobbit holes, one would never be able to stop with the innuendos and possibilities.

As for Maeglin, he is the one of the few clear example of a corrupted elf that we meet in person, where incestous lust seems to be at work, although he is just as much lusting after the throne, and indeed, Celegorm is really more greedy for power than for ....