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Old 04-09-2003, 12:13 AM   #52
Man-of-the-Wold
Wight
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
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Man-of-the-Wold has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The distinction between the offspring of Elrond and that of Elros is a good question, and fine debate has ensued on the merits of Elros' children having the same choice as Arwen, Elladan and Elrohir, who were all in the same boat, so to speak.

But allow me to paint a picture for why -- aside from the "enriched strain" -- special grace was given to Elrond's children, and that the buck had already stopped for Elros' progeny.

Envision at the close of the First Age, Eonwe or whomever comes to Elrond and Elros and explains the fate of their parents, and the choices they were given and what they decided. Pretty tough.

It is also told onto Elrond and Elros that they too must choose which Kindred they would be. Now, Manwe on down to the Peredhil are all really bright folks capable of abstract anticipation of future events. So, the question arises: What about our children? Who would want to be immortal, if only to see his children die?

Remember, the default status is known and established, and the choice to Elros and Elrond is not to be transformed into a Man or an Elf, but rather to have the life and fate of one or the other. (One could argue that the choice is really to be counted among the Firstborn or not) Generally, Elrond is not called an “Elf” per se, as indeed he is not supposed to be. So, it would be perfectly clear to both Elrond and Elros and the messengers from the Valar that without any further pronouncement of fate, the matter of the next generation needs to be addressed, and was quite logically resolved even before Elrond and Elros were approached.

Now, if the choice is to be of the Secondborn, and of course, King of the remaining Attani, then you have chosen for your children. It needs to stop somewhere, and indeed mortality is the true gift. Besides, how would it operate otherwise for Elros' children? What! ... In their old age, just as they are about to die, they can hop on a boat to Eldamar and become immortal? No, Elros cast the die for all is descendents. There would need to have been all sorts of rules to govern any further choices thereafter.

But if the choice were immortality, then a cruel fate would ensue if no further grace was given to their children, and I would argue any further descendents. Nobody wants to outlive his or her children. It's one of the most dreaded prospects in life.

But at the same time the Exception in Fate by Manwe against the power of mortality inherent to any drop of human blood must have limits.

If Elrond had packed up and gone to Aman at the start of the Second Age, then clearly any descendents of his born in the Undying Lands should have certainly had the life of the Quendi.

But in the case of his staying in Middle-Earth, as was the case (and putting aside the postulation of his having married a mortal woman), the question arises as to how far Manwe’s declaration applied.

And, I would say that it was probably put to Elrond and Elros as such: That were either of them to choose for the Elves and yet not depart directly for the Undying Lands, wherefrom while he should so abode in Middle-Earth, any of his children and their children and so forth as directly descended from him, will enjoy the life of the Firstborn. Those descendents, however, shall forfeit that life if not joining him in Aman, once he has so verily departed from Endor.

My argument is that this was all thought out and explicitly part of the choice presented to the children of Earendil and Elwing.

Elladan/Elrohir & the question of too late.

I've always tended to intuit that Elladan and Elrohir chose mortality, but clearly, NOT because they failed to be onboard when Elrond set sail. His children, as JRRT’s letter indicates, had some time after Elrond had left, in which they could still sail into the West.

For Arwen, I would say that that period was moot. Having married Aragorn, it would have broken the sacrament of matrimony for her to go into the West, even were that an option. In a sense, Aragorn’s remark in the "Tale of Aragorn & Arwen" is, perhaps, a dying man's attempt to test is wife’s love, to help her see that hope remains, or to salve is own guilt at having brought her to that extremely painful juncture.

The tremendous force of that “Tale” is Arwen's realization that the bite of mortality is not one's own demise, which is usually assumed in thinking of men seeking unending life. Rather, what’s most hard to bear, it is the loss or leaving of those that we love. That’s what can really challenge the heart of even the most faithful and pious.

As for Elladan and Elrohir, my thinking has always been if they tarried in Middle-Earth, after the Sailing of the Keepers of the Rings, longer than a normal mortal man’s adult lifetime, then it was too late, and they’d age and die at an age of say 120-some years like Arwen.

The reference in the Prologue, however, indicates that the brethren’s remaining in Rivendell, whether that is what’s meant by “long remained,” was well within the lifetime of Merry. So, I’m actually more open-minded to their having potentially departed in time to the West, but I’ve always felt they wished to identify with Men, and then of the seven with a choice, it would be 4 to 3 in favor of the Secondborn. (The reference confirms my belief that Celeborn only went on the last boat with Cirdan).

[Finally, I think the quote about Aragorn’s relatively shorter lifetime compared to earlier descendents of Elros was from a less developed time in JRRT’s interpretations of the Red Book. Aragorn lived to be 210, still thrice that of normal mortal men, and perhaps significantly longer than any other Dunedain by the Fourth Age, but still less than was originally the case for the Line of Elros, for which five times a normal lifespan had been the norm.]
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