[Imladris]

Imladris -- thank you for tackling the truth/real conundrum head on when you write that
Quote:
What makes a book real, I believe, is if it speaks truth

Sounds good, until I get to the example you cite.

It sounds as if you agree with me here (What makes a book real, etc). If I am mistaken, please tell me.

Assuming that you agree with me, let me continue.

I find this disconcerting, because apparently I am to hate LotR????? I don't say this for rhetorical effect, but simply because, well, Tolkien's views do conflict with my own, in just about every way. (Well, OK, he and I are closer together than I am with, say, the author of the article that davem has cited above, but that's hardly a fair comparison; I have more in common with a turnip than with the author of that article. . .but I digress). I still find the same sort of reality in the book that I find in works with views that are more like my own, but this is natural and to be expected: most of the real people, cultures and practices in the world are not run according to my view of things! That’s the neat thing about truth and reality: we can all have different truths, but we all share the same reality.

Of course we all share the same reality despite our views-- we live in the same world. But then again, LotR is just a shadow of reality. If it was not, there really would be magic, wouldn't there? It is not real. It could never happen. It never happened. Thus it is not, technically, real. But it feels real. Why? I have already told you my reasons in my first two posts. I suppose that we have a different view of how truth and reality work and if that is the case then we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

I am convinced the universe acts in a certain way (see my first post). Just look at history and I am sure you can be convinced of this fact. Tolkien's works follow the pattern of the world. It is true, thus it feels real (henceforward, I will use "real" for "feels real"). That which is not real, a thing that acts contrary to the designs of this world, can be pleasing to us...but it is not real. For example, how many girls meet their Prince Charming?

I also hold that not everybody thinks that LotR is real (I know several people, and I am sure you do as well). That is where my second post comes into play.

Just a stray thought: either Wilde's statement is true or else there are varying levels of truth.

To go back to your last paragraph:

And that’s where I come back to Tolkien: do his works share the same reality? Or are they ‘merely’ very pleasing tales, divorced from reality? Or do they create a new or different reality, that in some way is connected to our own?

I can answer the last question. His reality is in some way connected with our reality because he created parts of LotR from his own experiences. I think this quote explains it farely well:

Everything you've seen, experienced, read, or heard gets broken down like compost in your head and then your own ideas grow out of that compost.

-- J.K. Rowling

I suppose we could conclude then that Tolkien is real in different ways for different people.