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**lindil** · 04-03-2001, 03:28 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did Denethor Know?

While I am by no means convinced Denethor did know, herre are acouple of points which suggest he might have.

saruman could have tipped him off.

Denethor may well have kept tabs on what Gandalf and saruman were looking at in his/the royal library. If these books/scrolls were looked at so little they almost certainly were dusty. if they were then read, you have effected the dust. Then Denthor obviously having a large amount of natural curiosity, checks them out.

Denthor's level of paranoia may have been such that he believed Aragorn was coming w/ the ring
and that until Pippin's arrival w/ Gandalf he did not know the truth. When he finally did he was prob. furious w/ Gandalf.Although he can not have been expectd to be in on the decision since he had [ and other Stewards before him] ruled Gondor w/ no communications re: anything approaching policy w/ any other realm than Rohan. And even that was probably minimal in the days of Theoden's decline.

In Denethor's mind, all allies were to be doubted, due to either Gandlaf or Saruman's influence.

Saruman probably worked a number on Denethor's confidence in the '1/2 elves ,elves and wizards' who had been traditional allies of Gondor in the past. Denethor was probably to proud to ask real questions of Gandalf but would I believe had watched his movements [and sarumans] in the palantir.

I nshort Denthor kneew alot, knew there was sceming among the Northern Elves and Dunedain and that Gandalf was involved and that so was Thorongil/aragorn and that the heir of Isuldur's return [or his sword] to Gondor had been prohesied. This all seemed to drive him somewhat crazy, allies he could not control or daunt and of whom he was too proud to ask help of.

He is sort of the Turin of the LotR

Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

04-03-2001, 03:28 AM	#12
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 573</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Did Denethor Know? While I am by no means convinced Denethor did know, herre are acouple of points which suggest he might have. saruman could have tipped him off. Denethor may well have kept tabs on what Gandalf and saruman were looking at in his/the royal library. If these books/scrolls were looked at so little they almost certainly were dusty. if they were then read, you have effected the dust. Then Denthor obviously having a large amount of natural curiosity, checks them out. Denthor's level of paranoia may have been such that he believed Aragorn was coming w/ the ring and that until Pippin's arrival w/ Gandalf he did not know the truth. When he finally did he was prob. furious w/ Gandalf.Although he can not have been expectd to be in on the decision since he had [ and other Stewards before him] ruled Gondor w/ no communications re: anything approaching policy w/ any other realm than Rohan. And even that was probably minimal in the days of Theoden's decline. In Denethor's mind, all allies were to be doubted, due to either Gandlaf or Saruman's influence. Saruman probably worked a number on Denethor's confidence in the '1/2 elves ,elves and wizards' who had been traditional allies of Gondor in the past. Denethor was probably to proud to ask real questions of Gandalf but would I believe had watched his movements [and sarumans] in the palantir. I nshort Denthor kneew alot, knew there was sceming among the Northern Elves and Dunedain and that Gandalf was involved and that so was Thorongil/aragorn and that the heir of Isuldur's return [or his sword] to Gondor had been prohesied. This all seemed to drive him somewhat crazy, allies he could not control or daunt and of whom he was too proud to ask help of. He is sort of the Turin of the LotR Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.