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Man-of-the-Wold · 09-12-2002, 11:55 PM

Yes, thank you very much.

Tolkien is at pains to make sure that his literary world is very messy. Lots of people with their own issues, and things good and evil that are not in any way united.

As Treebeard says, no one is exactly on my side.

But besides the fact that forces seen and unseen have many sources and objects, or in some cases are simply chaotic, is that neither good nor evil have real metaphysical control. The Palantir, Sauron's affect on the wheather, and various other things work in vague and unwieldy ways. Galadriel, Gandalf, and others with intangible power, are loathe to use them out of wisdom, because no less than their adversaries the can do little more than "unleash" power. Harnessing can only be accomplished in the most basic of ways.

In sense all power, wither primary or secondary in Tolkien's world is primal, and it is only the intent and sentiment behind it that makes it good or evil. So, to be good like Tom Bombadil, it may be of only frustratingly narrow effect. Or, in Sauron's case it is evil because his motivation is nothing but pure "hate".

In a sense, what I fear with the movies is the tendency not to have men on the dark side, because a central point for Tolkien was that men could in large numbers fall into darkness, and that indeed, with just Orcs, neither Sauron or Saruman would have much strength.

Oh, Well.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Man-of-the-Wold ]

09-12-2002, 11:55 PM	#19
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	Yes, thank you very much. Tolkien is at pains to make sure that his literary world is very messy. Lots of people with their own issues, and things good and evil that are not in any way united. As Treebeard says, no one is exactly on my side. But besides the fact that forces seen and unseen have many sources and objects, or in some cases are simply chaotic, is that neither good nor evil have real metaphysical control. The Palantir, Sauron's affect on the wheather, and various other things work in vague and unwieldy ways. Galadriel, Gandalf, and others with intangible power, are loathe to use them out of wisdom, because no less than their adversaries the can do little more than "unleash" power. Harnessing can only be accomplished in the most basic of ways. In sense all power, wither primary or secondary in Tolkien's world is primal, and it is only the intent and sentiment behind it that makes it good or evil. So, to be good like Tom Bombadil, it may be of only frustratingly narrow effect. Or, in Sauron's case it is evil because his motivation is nothing but pure "hate". In a sense, what I fear with the movies is the tendency not to have men on the dark side, because a central point for Tolkien was that men could in large numbers fall into darkness, and that indeed, with just Orcs, neither Sauron or Saruman would have much strength. Oh, Well. [ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Man-of-the-Wold ] __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.