[The Saucepan Man]

Sorry if this looks like name-dropping; it truly is not meant as such. (Fordim)

It not only looks like outrageous name-dropping, it feels very much like it too. Scandalous!

And now onto business.

Yet in trying to apply my own experiences to the text, I feel compelled to take into account what I can untangle from the author's mind: what he meant when he wrote the text and created the world that he did. With all our current emphasis on individual freedom in many different shapes and forms, there is such a thing as respect to the author or historian. If you play in his ballpark, you respect his general rules. (Child)

I would say that, while one is free to investigate the author's intentions and values, an understanding of these is not necessary fully to appreciate the text. The text should be self-contained. Everything that we need to know about the protagonists, the events portrayed and the world in which it takes place should be in there. In other words, the reader should not be obliged to investigate authorial intention and standpoint in order to appreciate the text. After all, how many readers of the book do in fact do that? It follows that, while one might be aware of the author's own views and intentions, one is free to reject them if they are not implicit within the text.

In regard to SpM's recent comments on homosexuality or the lack of it in the text, I would say that sometimes what an historian omits is even more important than what he includes.

There is much that Tolkien omits from the text (just as there is much that a historian omits from a historical account) simpy because it is not relevant to the subject matter at hand. Apologies in advance if this gets distasteful, but Tolkien never (as far as I am aware) mentions his characters' toliet habits. Nor does he (save in very oblique references with regard to Aragorn and Arwen and (I think) Beren and Luthien) mention any sexual activity. We assume that these activities occur, because the world would not be credible if they did not. But, because they are not relevant to the story that he is telling, they do not need to be addressed. For me, homosexuality falls within the same category. It is a fact of life and therefore existed within Middle-earth. The world would not be credible to me if it did not. Others may (and no doubt will) take a different view. I am simply giving my take on it.

So, we either take the whole package as an artistic creation, including the moral value system the author has introduced into it, or we take the bare 'facts' of dates, geography, physics & biology, & feel free to impose our own value system & interpret the events of the story as we like. First alternative means 'slash' is not only incorrect, but 'wrong', & also impossible, as impossible as the fifteen foot rabbits. Second alternative means 'slash' is entirely acceptable, as it is not logically impossible, much though some people (whether they could count Tolkien himself among their number is unknowable, as SpM has pointed out) might wish it to be. (davem)

I do not see why the first alternative has to have the consequences that you have stated. The moral system which Tolkien has introduced into Middle-earth is not a complete recreation of his moral standpoint. It reflects only those aspects that he has chosen to include within it. As far as I can see, it does not preclude homosexuality. Nor do the facts that he has given us about the world necessarily preclude the existence of fifteen foot high rabbits (or hippos or ostriches). Why should they not exist? They are no less ludicrous in some respects than walking, talking trees. They do not feature in his tales because they are not relevant to them, but I would say that the reader is free to believe that they exist in Middle-earth if he or she so wishes.

On the other hand, we are not free to see Sauron and (LotR) Saruman as the good guys because we are clearly told that they are not. Nor are we free to interpret their evil acts as noble or heroic or attractive because it is clear from the text itself that this is incompatible with the moral value system that Tolkien has incorporated into his world. So, if we are to accept the story, we have to accept it as a "given" that Sauron is evil and that his behaviour is (within the story) morally incorrect.

This means that someone who reads the books from this point of view, who enters into its moral vision fully, belives in the supernatural dimension, the miraculous intervention of Eru, etc, will get more out of it than someone who doesn't, & simply reads it as a story set in a fabulous world where wierd stuff just 'happens'. In other words, there is a 'right' way to read the books, & a 'wrong' way. (davem)

While it will not surprise you to hear that I do not agree with your final sentence (since, as I have said, I do not believe in making subjective assessments of an individual's reading experience), I do actually agree with the rest of what you have said here. But just because an individual does not subscribe personally to the author's moral vision (whether that be the limited one presented within the text or the broader perspective as ascertained from external investigation), it does not follow that he or she is "wrong", at least as far as he or she (as an individual) is concerned.