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Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-27-2004, 10:58 AM

Ah yes Bethberry, old ruts indeed -- some of them very worn too boot!

The discussion so far is interesting (if a bit familiar) but I wonder what ever happened to my point regarding the names of characters and places? I'm still very interested in hearing what role people think these names have in our understanding of the texts.

SpM you make an interesting, if somewhat oddly ambiguous, point about the "take it or leave it" meaning of the names. If you want to piece them out to get an idea of what the author 'meant' then OK, if not, then also OK, just sit back and enjoy. I'm not entirely sure that this is quite so easy. If you are going to allow that a fuller appreciation of the names' meanings gives us 'more' or 'better' information then does that not mean necessarily that there are some readers who are better readers? That is, people who have the knowledge or wherewithal to figure out what the names mean will do a better job of understanding than those who don't?

The other point that has been passed over is what to do with the names once we've recovered them. Do we understand that meaning in terms of the ethos of the author (what Tolkien wanted them to mean to us as readers: e.g. Frodo grows into wisdom of Truth), in terms of their context in the text (what they come to mean in the narrative: e.g. Sam is and becomes half-wise), in terms of their etymological sense (e.g. smaug is a Germanic worm, wyrm) or in the sense we wish to take them (e.g. I get to decide what Frodo's wisdom might be)?

Perhaps if I throw out Frodo/froda as a specific example -- the name is OG for "wise by experience" but what does recovering that meaning add to our understanding of the text? How are we to take it? How much do we need to inqurie into Tolkien's view of what constitutes wisdom, and how much can we rely on our own view of wisdom? How much can we derive from the text itself as to what is wisdom?

What does the meaning of Frodo's name, mean?

07-27-2004, 10:58 AM	#367
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Ah yes Bethberry, old ruts indeed -- some of them very worn too boot! The discussion so far is interesting (if a bit familiar) but I wonder what ever happened to my point regarding the names of characters and places? I'm still very interested in hearing what role people think these names have in our understanding of the texts. SpM you make an interesting, if somewhat oddly ambiguous, point about the "take it or leave it" meaning of the names. If you want to piece them out to get an idea of what the author 'meant' then OK, if not, then also OK, just sit back and enjoy. I'm not entirely sure that this is quite so easy. If you are going to allow that a fuller appreciation of the names' meanings gives us 'more' or 'better' information then does that not mean necessarily that there are some readers who are better readers? That is, people who have the knowledge or wherewithal to figure out what the names mean will do a better job of understanding than those who don't? The other point that has been passed over is what to do with the names once we've recovered them. Do we understand that meaning in terms of the ethos of the author (what Tolkien wanted them to mean to us as readers: e.g. Frodo grows into wisdom of Truth), in terms of their context in the text (what they come to mean in the narrative: e.g. Sam is and becomes half-wise), in terms of their etymological sense (e.g. smaug is a Germanic worm, wyrm) or in the sense we wish to take them (e.g. I get to decide what Frodo's wisdom might be)? Perhaps if I throw out Frodo/froda as a specific example -- the name is OG for "wise by experience" but what does recovering that meaning add to our understanding of the text? How are we to take it? How much do we need to inqurie into Tolkien's view of what constitutes wisdom, and how much can we rely on our own view of wisdom? How much can we derive from the text itself as to what is wisdom? What does the meaning of Frodo's name, mean? __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.