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Old 07-15-2004, 11:48 AM   #67
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evisse
As an afterthought, I always get the impression, based on absolutely no cannonical sources at all, that Tolkien was feeling more kindly towards orcs than he let show, and similarly, more pessimistic towards men.
They are necessary - within the story as Sauron's 'dog soldiers', the 'poor bloody infantry' that has to do the dirty work - & for Tolkien himself as a writer. He needs the threat that they represent. They must be a stupid, cruel, & obedient 'force'. Yet, they have to be explained. And he can't ever quite do it. They simply don't belong, as they are, in a moral universe, & he is never able to explain, within the 'laws' of that universe, how they came to be there. He struggles in the same way with trolls, & to an extent with dragons. In oreder for them to exist in his proto Christian moral universe they have to be explained in a way that corresponds with Christian moral values - ie, everything must originally be good, as proceeding from the mind of a Good creator, & evil must be something which is external to the creator, but it must not require another force, because that would be dualism, & dualism is heresy. So, evil can only be corrupted good, & the evil individual must have made the moral choice to seek 'evil knowledge'. Even a monotheistic creation with a dualistic-seeming world is not acceptable, so no-one can be forced into choosing evil. They must make a free choice - accept the Rings, bow down to Sauron willingly.

But the orcs don't fit. They don't choose to be orcs. Even if Osse is right:
Quote:
Reared for a soul purpose, they are dealed with with an 'iron hand'... beaten into submission from conception, indeed concieved for the purpose of hate, death and suffering... their lives mean nothing to those above them, around them and below them... they hate themselves, their comrades and their lot. They become spiteful, hateful beings almost immediately. What then can this person do. One orc who refuses to fight is beaten, then if it continues, is killed. Die fighting, or just die in pain!
This can hardly constitute true freedom of choice. Its interesting that Tolkien himself never proposed this as an explanation for orcs - bred from Elves, or Men, or animals, Maiar, robots, etc, but he never attempts 'blaming society' for their evil nature. In fact, he never uses that explanation for any of the other evil creatures/individuals in Middle earth. Evil is always a moral choice, made by an individual, & the individual is always fully responsible for that choice. Individuals can (obviously in Tolkien's view should ) always chooose the good, even if it means their death. But it doesn't account for them being born as orcs in the first place.
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