[davem]

A few random thoughts:

Originally Posted by Fordim

The root of evil is not Sauron or any other positivist ‘presence’ but the desire for “evil knowledge” (this is still a bit ambiguous: what makes certain knowledge “evil”?). The most evil thing one can do, then, is willingly to seek after that “evil knowledge". The consequence of this evil choice is two-fold. First, one becomes like a Ringwraith insofar as the desire for evil overcomes one’s identity and reduces one to a small part (the Mouth) of the ‘chief’ evildoer. Second, one becomes cruel and bestial.

Can we say that: 'The root of evil is not Sauron or any other positivist ‘presence’ but the desire for “evil knowledge” '?

Perhaps 'the root (cause)of evil actions is the desire for evil knowledge' would be more accurate?
'Evil' knowledge is merely knowledge of evil, & someone must have practised/produced evil in order for knowledge of it to come into being, so 'evil' must have pre-existed evil knowledge. Yet if evil is not a thing in itself, but a myriad forms of corruption of something else - 'good', how can we speak about a desire for 'evil' knowledge as if it was a desire for knowledge of some specific subject - knowledge of 'evil' is not the same as knowledge of physics, or biology, or even of Quenya, say.

So, we could speculate that what the Mouth originally wanted was the knowledge of how to corrupt good. But why would anyone desire a corrupt form of something over its pure form- its like desiring a broken-down car more than one in working order.

So, we could speculate instead that the Mouth began under the delusion that there was such a thing as pure evil, equal & opposite of good. Probably, given he is described as a Black Numenorean, he was part of a group that had followed Sauron's worship of Melkor. In other words, he was the Middle Earth equivalent of a 'Satanist'. We could further speculate that the evil knowledge he desired was power over others, & over the matter of Arda - this is basically what Melkor desired, & Sauron also. We know worship practices instigated by Sauron in Numenor included human sacrifice. If the Mouth was crueller than any orc, perhaps we are talking not just about practices involving torture, burning alive, etc, but the kind of thing the Lord of the Nazgul threatens Eowyn with

"He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."

To be able to keep a victim's mind captive after their flesh has been devoured would be beyond the capacity of any orc. I suppose we could speculate that the Mouth rules the Houses of Lamentation, & has the capacity to destroy the Hroa & keep the Fea to torture (or should that be destroy the Hroa and the Fea & keep the sana to torture - I'm not up on Middle Earth metaphysics). This would come under the general heading of 'control over the matter & inhabitants of Arda', having the capacity to manipulate the physical & metaphysical dimensions, which would offer the possibility of overcoming death - which seems to have been the Black Numenorean's obsession.