View Single Post
Old 07-08-2004, 10:37 AM   #23
The Saucepan Man
Corpus Cacophonous
 
The Saucepan Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
Question Redemption withheld

Quote:
So Tolkien's concern is showing the consequence of our choices - because we can become 'wraiths' also. (davem)
But how does this tie in with the Christian idea of forgiveness? The Nine kings of Men made some pretty terrible decisions, yes. Their pride, greed and ambition led them to become instruments of Sauron’s evil will. But, being enslaved by Sauron, they were then wholly unable (during their “lifetime” at least) to repent. Doesn’t Christian doctrine hold that God will accept anyone who truly repents, whatever sins they have committed in their past? The Ringwraiths never got that opportunity.

The same may be said of Orcs (and I am veering into well-trodden territory here). From the moment that they become (or are born as) Orcs, they have no opportunity of redemption during their lifetime. They are condemned to commit evil.

It seems to me therefore that, by creating irredeemably evil creatures in order to avoid a philosophical debate, Tolkien just created more problems for himself. From what I know of what is said in the HoME series, Tolkien recognised this, since he began to rethink his ideas on the origin of Orcs. Logically, the only solution to the dilemma of having creatures which are born irredeemably and unchangeably evil is to portray them as mindless pawns, and this, I believe, is the direction in which Tolkien was heading. But it doesn’t sit well with the characterisation of the likes of Shagrat and Gorbag in LotR.
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!
The Saucepan Man is offline   Reply With Quote