<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 60</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: ....
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Quothe Michael Martinez:
We just went through this on Xenite.Org's Tolkien and Inklings forum!
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I've been going through it elsewhere recently as well.
Must be some sort of cycle. But the debate is interesting enough to be in several forums.
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Quothe Michael Martinez:
I thought I had given sufficient proofs to show that Feanor was indeed King of the Noldor. Maedhros, after all, could not have ceded his claim to the kingship if he hadn't inherited one from hs father. And the text states clearly that "therefore even as Mandos foretold the House of Feanor were called the Dispossessed, because the overlordship passed from it, the elder, to the house of Fingolfin, both in Elende and in Beleriand".
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I thought I had given sufficent proof to show that there were rival claimants to the title, but no (generally) accepted King until Fingolfin was 'elected' (or whatever) by the 'council of princes' (as it were).
Of course the 'Overlordship' had passed in Elende when Finwe held himself 'unkinged' at the banishment of Feanor, and Fingolfin took up the rule in his place.
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Quote:
"Finarfin was set to rule the remnant of the Noldor in the Blessed Realm". If Fingolfin, who is only said to have "ruled the Noldor in Tirion", was a King of the Noldor even after Feanor claimed the Kingship, then so, too, was Finarfin.
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I don't think I have said that Fingolfin was King of the Noldor when he ruled the Noldor of Tirion. He was (as I see it) High Prince (as was Feanor), and essentially 'regent' for the 'unkinged' Finwe. JRRT did mention Fingolfin's "kingship" in reference to the rule of the Noldor after Finwe 'unkinged' himself, but this was in 'Quenta Silmarillion', and he seems to have abandoned using the term in his later rewrites. This is the overall context I am looking at. Finwe was King. Finwe held himself unkinged. But he was still considered King until he died. When he died there were two rival claims of Kingship. Feanor who was the eldest of the House; and Fingolfin who had been ruling the Noldor in Finwe's stead. These rival claims were not settled until Feanor died, and Fingolfin was the only (active) claimant left.
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Quote:
Tolkien did not anticipate that someday there would be any demand he provide the precise wording "Finarfin was King of the Noldor in Aman" and "Maedhros inherited the Kingship from his father Feanor."
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Probably not, but Maedhros is not said to have inherited the Kingship. Maedhros says the Kingship is Fingolfin's by right. Also "after the death of Feanor the overlordship of the Exiles passed to Fingolfin (save among the followers of Feanor's sons)". This does not say that Maedhros was inherited the Kingship either (what he inherited was a claim). It seems to say that after Feanor died Fingolfin was the rightful ruler (though some Feanorians did not accept this, but then they never had, and some still were unwilling, even after Maedhros said Fingolfin was the rightful King, and did not press his _claim_ to the Kingship, again he only had a claim, not the title.
Tar-Elenion The High Elves had been in the hands of the gods praising and adoring Eru 'the One', Iluvatar the Father of All on the Mountain of Aman</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000211>Tar Elenion</A> at: 3/20/01 10:57:10 pm
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Tar-Elenion
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