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**lindil** · 03-10-2001, 11:38 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
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deep in

'enep said "and I think that once these are destroyed they can never be regained (except in special
circumstances eg Gandalf's reincarnation) and then their spirits are left to wander the world, present but idle so to speak.'

I think that the inability of the spirits of Maia to re-'incarnate ' is rare and strange.

sauron could not because of the power e had invested in the ring, when it was gone as Gandalf I think said , ' the greater power of his strength of old' was gone .

In saruman's case maybe his spirit would in time be able to reclothe itself, I think the dissolution by the wind from the west was a pretty bad sign.

As Christian theology [and others] teaches at death we see the truth of life , God as He is [as far as we can 'see'] and the truth of our lives.
It seemed saruman had a moment of repentance or realization [too late] as his spirit shook off the tramels of the flesh, and he looked to the west.

Maia were by nature spirit, and as such could live perfectly well w/out a body. However if they chose [like Melian] or were under obedience to be clothed [ as the Istari were] then the body becomes a more and more comfortable habitation. Some such as Melkor and Sauron feared [as did the demons tormenting the man among the stones and tombs in the gospel begged at least to be sent into a pig herd] being / out a body , then leaving becomes an unnatural fear.

There is more to say but much insight can be had from the review of the Osanwe-Kenta thread here in books, and in HoME X [sect 4[?] , I am falling asleep as I type so good night ...

Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

03-10-2001, 11:38 PM	#20
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 467</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> deep in 'enep said "and I think that once these are destroyed they can never be regained (except in special circumstances eg Gandalf's reincarnation) and then their spirits are left to wander the world, present but idle so to speak.' I think that the inability of the spirits of Maia to re-'incarnate ' is rare and strange. sauron could not because of the power e had invested in the ring, when it was gone as Gandalf I think said , ' the greater power of his strength of old' was gone . In saruman's case maybe his spirit would in time be able to reclothe itself, I think the dissolution by the wind from the west was a pretty bad sign. As Christian theology [and others] teaches at death we see the truth of life , God as He is [as far as we can 'see'] and the truth of our lives. It seemed saruman had a moment of repentance or realization [too late] as his spirit shook off the tramels of the flesh, and he looked to the west. Maia were by nature spirit, and as such could live perfectly well w/out a body. However if they chose [like Melian] or were under obedience to be clothed [ as the Istari were] then the body becomes a more and more comfortable habitation. Some such as Melkor and Sauron feared [as did the demons tormenting the man among the stones and tombs in the gospel begged at least to be sent into a pig herd] being / out a body , then leaving becomes an unnatural fear. There is more to say but much insight can be had from the review of the Osanwe-Kenta thread here in books, and in HoME X [sect 4[?] , I am falling asleep as I type so good night ... Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.