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davem · 05-11-2004, 10:54 AM

Bethberry

I may have gone too far in my interpretation of your position, but

Quote: "I don't think I have this experience you claim for all of us. What I feel when I finish reading Tolkien is little different than feelings of departures from other extremely well imagined worlds of fiction. It is narrative cessation--a post-reading desire comedown--not a sense that this world somehow fails. "

And

Quote:I have felt great, overwhelming grief at parts of his work, grief that brought me to my knees (metaphorically speaking),

seem to me a bit contradictory. I wouldn't say I treat LotR as a 'religious' text, though, I would say that through it I am able to glimpse something else, something that moves me - & I mean that - something moves me. It is something external to me, that affects me deeply, & all the psychological theories don't mean anything, or explain anything in regard to it. I know its real. Just as I know that an experience I had a few months back was 'real' & True. I was walking along a farm track, between hedges, with big old trees along the way. The sky was clear & the stars were shining through the branches. I was feeling a little down, & though, as I said, I'm not a 'Christian', I began reciting 'Hail Mary's. After a few repetitions, the air seemed to become hazy, & I felt my Guardian Angel standing behind me, enfolding me with It's wings. It was absolutely 'real', & True. And before anyone decides to psychologise that, I don't care, & you'd be wrong, because I'm old enough to know what's real & what's not.

Tolkien's stories put me in touch with the same 'True', Joyous dimension of Reality
that I experienced then.

Also, when you state 'Quote':

I cannot see where anyone has called you wrong for your experience of Tolkien, [davem[/b], not Fordim, nor Aiwendil nor SaucepanMan and certainly not myself nor Child. In fact, it seems to me that a great deal of effort has been expended towards defending the validity of any one's interpretation.

I didn't intend to imply anyone had called my experience wrong - I was simply saying if my experience is 'wrong', 'incorrect', not in accord with 'Truth', as judged by some kind of 'objective standard' then I don't care & am happy for it to be 'wrong'.

Aiwendil

Sorry, I don't think there is any contradiction between what Helen & I are saying about Truth - I suspect you are being deliberately literalist.

05-11-2004, 10:54 AM	#307
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Bethberry I may have gone too far in my interpretation of your position, but Quote: "I don't think I have this experience you claim for all of us. What I feel when I finish reading Tolkien is little different than feelings of departures from other extremely well imagined worlds of fiction. It is narrative cessation--a post-reading desire comedown--not a sense that this world somehow fails. " And Quote:I have felt great, overwhelming grief at parts of his work, grief that brought me to my knees (metaphorically speaking), seem to me a bit contradictory. I wouldn't say I treat LotR as a 'religious' text, though, I would say that through it I am able to glimpse something else, something that moves me - & I mean that - something moves me. It is something external to me, that affects me deeply, & all the psychological theories don't mean anything, or explain anything in regard to it. I know its real. Just as I know that an experience I had a few months back was 'real' & True. I was walking along a farm track, between hedges, with big old trees along the way. The sky was clear & the stars were shining through the branches. I was feeling a little down, & though, as I said, I'm not a 'Christian', I began reciting 'Hail Mary's. After a few repetitions, the air seemed to become hazy, & I felt my Guardian Angel standing behind me, enfolding me with It's wings. It was absolutely 'real', & True. And before anyone decides to psychologise that, I don't care, & you'd be wrong, because I'm old enough to know what's real & what's not. Tolkien's stories put me in touch with the same 'True', Joyous dimension of Reality that I experienced then. Also, when you state 'Quote': I cannot see where anyone has called you wrong for your experience of Tolkien, [davem[/b], not Fordim, nor Aiwendil nor SaucepanMan and certainly not myself nor Child. In fact, it seems to me that a great deal of effort has been expended towards defending the validity of any one's interpretation. I didn't intend to imply anyone had called my experience wrong - I was simply saying if my experience is 'wrong', 'incorrect', not in accord with 'Truth', as judged by some kind of 'objective standard' then I don't care & am happy for it to be 'wrong'. Aiwendil Sorry, I don't think there is any contradiction between what Helen & I are saying about Truth - I suspect you are being deliberately literalist. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."