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Old 05-06-2004, 06:53 PM   #19
The Saucepan Man
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
The Eye Congratulations! It's an Orc.

As Sharkû suggested, its worth taking a look in the archive index in Haudh-en-Ndengin. There are five threads on female orcs and orcish reproduction. Not that this thread shouldn't continue, but it's always interesting to see what others have said on a topic in the past.

One point that hasn't been raised here yet (and really needs to be) is that the Silmarillion states:


Quote:
For the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the children of Iluvatar
Now, Tolkien changed his views on the origins of Orcs (as presented in the Silm), so it cannot be considered definitive of his intentions as far as Orcish nature is concerned. Personally, I tend to go along with what is stated in the Silm, so I am quite content to accept this extract as the end of the matter.

But, whichever explanation of Orcish origin you prefer, they all involve the corruption by Morgoth of creatures (whether Elves, Men or beasts) that were, in their pre-corrupted state, capable of progeneration. Even if you hold with the theory that they (or some of them) were Maia spirits within physical bodies, they were incanate and therefore capable of reproduction (as Melian, another incarnate Maia, was).

Another piece of evidence not yet raised here is the reference to Azog being the father of Bolg. Again it's not definitive, since Azog may have been hermaphroditic or he may have been Bolg's "spawning father" ( ) or he may simply have raised a spawned Bolg. But none of those explanations ring true to me.

Now put all that together and add in the fact that there is no reference (as far as I am aware) in any of Tolkien's writings to Orcs being "spawned" in the manner the films suggest, and it seems to me that PJ has a lot of threads on this forum to answer for. There is simply nothing to suggest that Orcs multiplied in any manner different from the Children of Iluvatar.
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