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Old 04-27-2004, 08:13 PM   #15
Bęthberry
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A tantalizingly vague question that can be taken many ways, bilbo_baggins.

Quote:
If the Nazgul were once Men, and Saruman could control Men, could Saruman sweet-talk the Nazgul into submission? Or could the Nazgul be subject to other things Men are subject to?
Sharkey has chosen to provide a textual reference for one instance in which Saruman was said to influence the Nazgul. Yet is such 'source'evidence all there is that can be said about the question? Is it merely a matter of explaining away possible contradictions in the mythology? Or is further discussion?

And burrahobbit has claimed of men that:

Quote:
Pretty much the only thing that all men are subject to is dying and then leaving the world,
Now, this is interesting. I suppose burra has 'covered' himself here in limiting his statement to "all men," but it seems to me that men are subject to far more than death. There are many temptations, sins, desires, susceptibilties, vanities, and wishes that men are heir to.

Is it not possible to consider bilbo's question as one concerning the extent to which the Nazgul were as fallable as men? This is not a question as to the natue of their transformation into wraiths--spirit vs body or how much they were enslaved--but what would be the various means by which they could be tempted.

Would they be susceptible to flattery? to desire and lust? to revenge? Could Saruman appeal to these susceptibilties as the devil or satan has to men's vanities in stories over the ages?
This is, I would suggest, a more philsophical and less textual way to consider just what is involved in Tolkien's creation of enslaved men.

I also hear a small RPG bell ringing. Imagine a kind of Dorien Gray story here.
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