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Old 04-11-2004, 01:11 AM   #48
davem
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Well, Eru, is not 'God' in this world. Eru doesn't create a 'good' world. Eru propounds a 'good' theme to the Ainur, which Melkor attempts to corrupt. Eru combats this. Melkor fights back, etc.

The Music reaches a certain point, Eru calls a halt, & then creates Arda, based on the Music - not his original 'good' concept of Arda, but from the Music which contains Melkor's theme(s).

So, from the point Arda comes into being, it is 'Marred'. So, Arda has never been 'Unmarred'. As I said Arda was never 'good'. Hence, apart from the original form it had in the mind of Eru at the first propounding of the original theme. So Eru atually creates Arda Marred, which is His choice - accepting that He did not introduce the Marring. He creates Arda Marred, knowing it is Marred, knowing that suffering must be the lot of those who will inhabit it.

So the question arises, why? Is it because He has some sense, or has come to some realisation, that in creating the Ainur, some of whom, in being seduced by Melkor, are 'flawed', or prone to being flawed/seduced by pride/evil that he is not a very 'good' creator - that the potental for creating 'flawed' or Marred beings exists within Him, & has to be worked out in a physical 'arena'?

God creates a good world, which is then Marred by 'our' fall. Eru creates an already fallen world. Eden (literally or metaphorically - depending on how fundamentalist one's interpretation of Genesis is) existed. Perfection was, it existed as a 'fact', whereas Arda Unmarred only ever existed as a possibility, an idea, in the mind of Eru, & was corrupted by Melkor before it was made.

We have thus two completely different concepts of Deity. In this world, because Eden once existed as a 'fact', it is shown to be possible. Arda Unmarrred can only be a 'hope' for the inhabitants of ME, because, beyond the original idea, it never existed physically.

So, if Eru intentionally creates a fallen world, is He not responsible for that choice? The Fall of Adam & Eve was optional - they didn't have to choose a fallen world for themselves & their decendents - so, the 'choice' of living in a fallen or unfallen world was made by those who will live in it. In Arda the choice is imposed by Eru, & the Children are born into a world already fallen, & have no choice in the matter. In this world, we struggle to make the best of our fall, which we bear responsibility for. In Arda the inhabitants live in a fallen world which fell before they came into being. Hence they never get the choice to live in an unfallen/un Marred Arda. All their choices are made in a fallen world, in response to its fallen state.

Of course, in the later writings, Tolkien seems to move away from this concept, plays it down. Men are shown to have 'chosen' to follow Melkor. But it is still not the Biblical account mythologised. Tolkien seems to be attempting to move the responsibility from Eru to Elves & Men, but the original choice of whether to create Arda according to His original theme, or according to the latest form of the Music, corrupted by Melkor lies ultimately with Eru.

If we then move to Frodo, & whether his suffering is essentially 'wrong', it all hinges on the existence or otherwise of a spiritual dimension. Put the spiritual/religious aspect on one side for a moment. What we have is the story of someone who by fate, or intent, is destroyed in his attempt to help others. He does the right thing & is broken by it, ends feeling a failure, sad, hopeless, & with his life ebbing away. The journey into the west would be symbolic of death. Deep feeling of 'wrongness', unfairness. Especially because even those he saves will also just die, & those they care about will just die, & all our hopes & dreams are lost (Atheism - we can choose that & resign ourselves to it - I remember reading an about an ancient Epicurean?? tomb inscription 'I was not. I have been. I am not. I do not mind' - or we can accept it & fall into despair about it, or just not think about it.)

Second option: Faith. Frodo does go through all that, but it is the Will of Eru. Frodo's sacrifice is not in vain. All he suffers is for some greater good, There is something beyond the circles of the World, some hope & happiness. But if we look at Frodo's final state from that perspective, do we feel its ok that he ended up as he did? Is there not some sense that it is wrong? Is there no sense that Eru is in any way responsible & to be held accountable?

If we were speaking of this world, there wouldn't be, because God made this world perfect - He saw that it was Good - so it was His intent that it should be Good, & that suufering shouldn't exist in this world - God cannot be criticised for this world's fall. But Eru, on the other hand, deliberately creates a fallen world, to 'show the Ainur what they have done'. Eru creates the world knowing Frodo will be broken, because he has created Arda knowing that Sauron will create the Ring, & that it will have to be destroyed. Christ is putting right something that shouldn't have gone wrong, because the Fall was not intended (even if known by God, He didn't choose it to happen. Eru, on the other hand, not only knows, but chooses to create Arda already Marred, & waiting for that Marring to manifest.

So, we can question Eru's motives, & responsibility, because they are different from God's.

And I think I've now inflicted enough theology on my poor readers for the present
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