The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Unnumbered Tears

davem · 04-08-2004, 02:09 AM

Nilpaurion,

I do wonder about the extent to which the Valar's inaction is due to them trying to 'actualise the Music' - which they are bound to do, IMO, & how much is down to shock, confusion & self doubt. They thought they were doing the right thing up to then, & suddenly it all collapses like a pack of cards.

At that point they suddenly cease to do anything effective against Melkor, as if they're afraid that any major action will blow up in their faces, so they wait until they feel they know what they should do - but lets face it, if it hadn't been for the Noldor in ME Morgoth would have had a free rein to do whatever he wanted. The Valar, in their confusion, & desire to see the Noldor humbled, desert Men, Dwarves & Sindarin Elves.

I agree with H-I as regards Morgoth - I recall an essay which describes him at the end 'cowering stupidly' in his lowest dungeon as the forces of the Valar (finally) assail Angband. But then, Morgoth isn;t some kind of Byronic 'anti-hero', going down in a blaze of glory. Tolkien wouldn't have created such a personification of evil, because he had seen real evil on the Somme, & knew that it's really cowardly, self obsessed & cruel. This is the difference between a writer like Pullman, who has lived a safe middle class existence & can play with the idea of evil being darkly attractive, & one like Tolkien who knew evil for what really was, & couldn't play around with it in that way.

04-08-2004, 02:09 AM	#16
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Nilpaurion, I do wonder about the extent to which the Valar's inaction is due to them trying to 'actualise the Music' - which they are bound to do, IMO, & how much is down to shock, confusion & self doubt. They thought they were doing the right thing up to then, & suddenly it all collapses like a pack of cards. At that point they suddenly cease to do anything effective against Melkor, as if they're afraid that any major action will blow up in their faces, so they wait until they feel they know what they should do - but lets face it, if it hadn't been for the Noldor in ME Morgoth would have had a free rein to do whatever he wanted. The Valar, in their confusion, & desire to see the Noldor humbled, desert Men, Dwarves & Sindarin Elves. I agree with H-I as regards Morgoth - I recall an essay which describes him at the end 'cowering stupidly' in his lowest dungeon as the forces of the Valar (finally) assail Angband. But then, Morgoth isn;t some kind of Byronic 'anti-hero', going down in a blaze of glory. Tolkien wouldn't have created such a personification of evil, because he had seen real evil on the Somme, & knew that it's really cowardly, self obsessed & cruel. This is the difference between a writer like Pullman, who has lived a safe middle class existence & can play with the idea of evil being darkly attractive, & one like Tolkien who knew evil for what really was, & couldn't play around with it in that way. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."