The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - **RotK

doug*platypus · 12-18-2003, 08:24 PM

First of all I have to say that Arwen and Elrond were greatly redeemed in my mind by the third movie. The writers and especially the actors did a great job, and it was really nice for me to finish the trilogy not hating Elrond. Suddenly we who were so blind see the reason for his previous grumpiness. Of course, he has the most to lose from the defeat of Sauron. In the books this is only made apparent near the end, but in retrospect I think the movies show us this all the way through. His motivation the entire time has been to keep Arwen for himself.Liv Tyler acted beautifully, and for once the script had her doing enough but not too much. I have only seen the movie once so far, but I thought the scene where she foresees the child she and Aragorn will have was very moving. Probably because my wife and I have a 10-month old son. To anyone not so lucky that thought this scene was rubbish, perhaps you will think differently in another 10 or 20 years.However, I guess it was a bit of a frustrating way to turn everything around. Perhaps having Arwen see the vision at Rivendell may not have worked, I guess we'll never know. But it's yet another case of Peter Jackson's shocking Oh, they're going. Oh no! I tricked you, they're coming back! ploy. Yes, very cunning Mr. Jackson . You certainly had us fooled. I'm sure that everybody thought that Arwen was leaving Middle-Earth, Sam was going back to Hobbiton, and Aragorn was lost forever (TTT).The fact that several Barrow Downers have not picked up on the Arwen dying idea shows how poorly it was shown, and how ill-advised it was to begin with! In keeping with the comic-book type magic of the movies, in FOTR Arwen gave the ability to leave for Valinor to Frodo. As if it was like a backstage pass. I believe it has more to do with this than with her giving the Evenstar to Aragorn. Yes, that signifies that she wishes to become mortal, but the fact that her fate is now tied up with that of Frodo and therefore the Ring is the reason that she is dying. For the same reason she tells Elrond that she cannot take ship even if she wanted to.It makes no sense, it's absolutely ridiculous, and it was totally unnecessary since at the end of the ROTK movie the elves decide to let Bilbo go without his having to take the place of someone. I doubt whether anyone would think that Aragorn needs the extra encouragement of Arwen dying to defeat Sauron. Maybe it's supposed to go something like:Aragorn: "Dominating Middle-Earth I can stand. Killing my friends... fair enough. Destroying my kingdom, my people and my city, that's forgiveable I suppose. But now you're hurting my girlfriend? Say your prayers, sucker!!"Right .

12-18-2003, 08:24 PM	#20
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	First of all I have to say that Arwen and Elrond were <B>greatly</B> redeemed in my mind by the third movie. The writers and especially the actors did a great job, and it was really nice for me to finish the trilogy not hating Elrond. Suddenly we who were so blind see the reason for his previous grumpiness. Of course, he has the most to lose from the defeat of Sauron. In the books this is only made apparent near the end, but in retrospect I think the movies show us this all the way through. His motivation the entire time has been to keep Arwen for himself.<P>Liv Tyler acted beautifully, and for once the script had her doing enough but not too much. I have only seen the movie once so far, but I thought the scene where she foresees the child she and Aragorn will have was very moving. Probably because my wife and I have a 10-month old son. To anyone not so lucky that thought this scene was rubbish, perhaps you will think differently in another 10 or 20 years.<P>However, I guess it was a bit of a frustrating way to turn everything around. Perhaps having Arwen see the vision at Rivendell may not have worked, I guess we'll never know. But it's yet another case of Peter Jackson's shocking <B>Oh, they're going. Oh no! I tricked you, they're coming back!</B> ploy. Yes, <I>very</I> cunning Mr. Jackson . You certainly had us fooled. I'm sure that everybody thought that Arwen was leaving Middle-Earth, Sam was going back to Hobbiton, and Aragorn was lost forever (TTT).<P>The fact that several Barrow Downers have not picked up on the Arwen dying idea shows how poorly it was shown, and how ill-advised it was to begin with! In keeping with the comic-book type magic of the movies, in FOTR Arwen gave the ability to leave for Valinor to Frodo. As if it was like a backstage pass. I believe it has more to do with this than with her giving the Evenstar to Aragorn. Yes, that signifies that she wishes to become mortal, but the fact that her fate is now tied up with that of Frodo and therefore the Ring is the reason that she is dying. For the same reason she tells Elrond that she cannot take ship even if she wanted to.<P>It makes no sense, it's absolutely ridiculous, and it was totally unnecessary since at the end of the ROTK movie the elves decide to let Bilbo go without his having to take the place of someone. I doubt whether anyone would think that Aragorn needs the extra encouragement of Arwen dying to defeat Sauron. Maybe it's supposed to go something like:<P><I>Aragorn:</I> <BR>"Dominating Middle-Earth I can stand. <BR>Killing my friends... fair enough. <BR>Destroying my kingdom, my people and my city, that's forgiveable I suppose. <BR>But now you're hurting my girlfriend? Say your prayers, sucker!!"<P>Right . __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.