[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the book, as far as I know, the situation never arises, so this is pure speculation based on a scene in the movie.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My thoughts exactly, Lord of Angmar, as I read this thread. As far as I can recall, there is no suggestion in the book that they were actually at Sammath Naur, on the edge of the Crack of Doom, when Elrond and Cirdan counselled Isildur to destroy the Ring. This is how it is portrayed in the film, but the passage in <I>The Counsel of Elrond</I> suggests that the conversation actually took place on the slopes of Orodruin, just after Isildur had cut the Ring from Sauron's hand. <P>Assuming that to be the case, then any suggestion that Elrond might have pushed Isildur over the precipice is out of the question (quite apart from the fact that Elrond would surely never have contemplated doing such a thing). And any attempt by Elrond to seize the Ring by force at that stage, or at any point thereafter, would (as Elrond would have concluded, had it occured to him) have been extremely dangerous for all concerned and unlikely in any event to result in the destruction of the Ring. <P>Even had Elrond suceeded in seizing the Ring from Isildur (which is questionable in itself), it is difficult to see how he would have been able to get it past a load of troops who had just seen him attack their King. And had he worn the Ring to do so, he would surely have been vulnerable to its wiles (particularly as he would have just perpetrated an act of aggression against his friend, ally and (very) distant relation). The Ring itself would have been bent on saving its skin (metal?).<P>And, in any event, I believe that Tolkien said in one of his <I>Letters</I> that no one could voluntarily have destroyed the Ring. So Elrond, once he had it in his possession, wouldn't have been able to do it either.