[Knight of Gondor]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Knight of Gondor, Just out of curiosity, who said I didn't like what he's saying? I am simply agreeing or disagreeing with his statements, just as you are. I never once said I didn't think he had a right to state his own opinions, but I think I have just as much a right as him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You’re right, Armetiel, I think I read too much into your comment about being intelligent enough to spell the word. My statement was aimed mostly at Arathor.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In TTT the only characters added in where Theoden, Wormtongue, Eomer, Faramir, Treebeard, and Eowyn...and in RotK only Denethor, Gothmog and the King of the Undead were introduced, and compare that with FotR, where not only the 9 members of the fellowship were introduced, but Isildur, Elrond, Arwen, Saruman, and many others...<BR>I dont think that a group of Rangers, Prince Imrahil, or Erkenbrand would of really confused the audience, but you never know, I often find myself overestimating the general public's ability to comprehend simple facts...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not exactly. YOU know as well as I do that Elendil, Isildur, Gil-Galad, and Elrond were crucial members in the prologue. The audience looks and sees a bunch of people fighting. Gollum was probably not expected to surface again, but everyone saw him.<P>In Fellowship, there are loads of hobbits. We’re only concerned with and introduced to Frodo, Bilbo, Merry, Pippin (who most can’t tell apart) and Sam. Oh, and Rosie. Then Gandalf comes in. (Almost any Tolkien illiterate who saw the movie remembers him) Then Saruman. Then nine Nazgûl, Barliman Butterbur and Strider. Then Arwen. Then Elrond. Then we have this huge council where we see a BUNCH of faces. Are they all important? Some? Which ones? There’s Legolas (“the elf-guy with the long hair” is often the description for mind-numbed audience members), Gimli (“the dwarf guy&#8221 , Boromir (“the other guy with the sword, that got killed&#8221 , Gandalf, (“Gandalf&#8221 , Aragorn (“Strider”, or, “the guy with the sword” or, in my parents’ case, “the heir&#8221 , plus Frodo and Sam, plus two hobbits they can’t keep straight. Next load of characters are Haldir, Galadriel, and Celeborn. This among the bunch of elves, a crowd from which the audience had no idea whether a defined character might step forth from at any moment. And what IS Boromir talking about in Lothlórien with Aragorn anyway? (When he references Gondor, and the strength of men)<P>In The Two Towers, we had Frodo and Sam and Gollum, and they run into the Nazgûl (“I thought they were DEAD. These are those horse-rider guys?&#8221 , and then Faramir, with his Rangers. We see Anborn, Faramir’s man-at-arms so to speak. We focus on him a little. Is HE important? They don’t know! Meantime, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are chasing the two hobbits that we still can’t tell apart. Then, what’s this guy on a horse carrying another guy? And who is that stunningly gorgeous woman? Who’s the king? Why is he all old like that? Is this the city of men they were talking about? Eww, who’s that creepy guy? The guy with the helmet is being banished, huh? Who are these soldiers that rescue the two hobbits? They get picked up by a <I>TREE</I>?! Gandalf’s back? Cool. Is that soldier that takes the weapons at Rohan, who is he? There’s Gamling, and Hama. WE know their names, and their significance (or lack thereof) but the audience doesn’t. They get brain freeze just hearing them! And “Éowyn”? “Éomer”? (My parents said “Erin? Elmer?&#8221 Then we get a SECOND city of men introduced, with soldiers, and leaders, and stewards, what whatnot. AUGH! It’s all just too overwhelming! <P>See what I mean?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Probably right, but still, I would like atleast some explaination as to why Marry's sword ingures the witch king so badly,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why shouldn’t it? (Speaking on defense of ignorant audiences everywhere) They have no clue why it <I>shouldn’t</I> hurt the Witchking. You could probably spin their heads with the tales that this guy actually fought against Arnor, which was actually a second kingdom like Gondor, which was divided into three realms as the result of a territorial and inheritance disputes, and subsequently destroyed. WE know that Amon Sul was a part of that, but all they see is a tower that’s kinda ruined. And if you told them that they were both descended from Númenor, which was seduced to destruction mostly by Sauron? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> When the nazgul want to, they can appear like normal men, but when they are on the hunt they are very scary, strong, and just plain cool, but that is not how they are in FotR, especially on weathertop where they not only appear to think the heart of hobbits is in the shoulder, they just seem too whimpy. I know that their main weapon was fear, but they could atleast appear to have some inteligence and fighting ability<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Willkill, old boy, read the book. I just read that scene not long ago, and Aragorn (“the heir&#8221 drove them off with just two flaming brands.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> we are talking about two different audicences, first you talk about not wanting to confuse or anger the general audience, and now you dont want to anger the loyal fans...you cant play both sides...either you add things to make the Tolkien fans happy, or you dumb it down for the general audience<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And yet, this daunting task was presented to Peter Jackson. It was his responsibility to maintain the complicated and intricate plot aspects for the die-hard fans (and did a fair job of it) while still making it understandable enough for Tolkien illiterates. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> so either Bill the Pony stays for the Tolkien fans and confuses the general audience, or he goes and people make posts online saying "Where is Bill?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think, despite my accusations that the audiences aren’t too smart when it comes to the intricacies of Tolkien, they can still surmise that they got Bill in Bree. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> That's why I thought it was pointless to get that quick shot of Galadriel showing Frodo the Ring and saying, "This is Nenya, the Ring of Adament. And I am it's Keeper." Why show it? Especially if you're not going to expound on it any more than that<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There, see? Perfect example. While some would go “why put that in there at all? We don’t get it!”, some go “why put it in, unless you expound on it more?” and some would say (if it wasn’t put in), “why didn’t we see any more of the scene with Frodo and Nenya?” It’s a really tough call, when you’ve got three or four differing viewpoints on the subject. I’m not saying that everyone’s ideas about what should have happened are either right or wrong, or criticizing them for having those opinions. I’m saying, it had to go one way or the other. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> no mention of Erkenbrand, and no reason given why Theodred died...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I missed this being said the first time around, and only saw it when The Only Real Estel mentioned it. Theodred’s death was made clear. In the EE, he fell at the crossing of the river Isen. When brought back, Éowyn recoils a little when she moves aside the sheet covering Theodred’s lower stomach area, and you can just barely see a bit of a wound there. She tells the king that his son is badly wounded. Later, she informs him that he is dead. Again, we need to judge Peter Jackson (if at all, less harshly) based on the Extended Edition, which was what HE wanted to have.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Hopefully I will not be in trouble with the ops for posting 3 times in a row, but I really didn't want to combine all the posts on the movies in to one endless post...I'll be lucky enough if anyone reads everthing as it is<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aw, take heart, <B>Estel</B>, I read it all! And you don’t see ME getting in trouble for posting huge posts like I do!<P>Willkill, maybe you should go watch all the DVD extras, and learn how much of a pain in the Bill this was for Peter Jackson to put together. He had to supervise all the shooting, after working on script, location-scouting, and cast-choosing. Supplementing and changing the script to conform to the book more, he also oversaw music, effects, editing...so many different levels on which this movie functions. I think PJ did an awesome (albeit not perfect) job on the movies. Poor guy only got a few hours of sleep each night for a couple of years. Though I agree he must be somewhat mental, wearing shorts like he does!!