The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Deeper symbolism and hidden meanings in the books

doug*platypus · 01-24-2003, 06:17 AM

Tolkien's experience in World War I and of World War II definitely coloured his writing of The Lord of the Rings. Although not published until the mid 1950s, it was started in 1936 and was almost completed in the first version by the end of the Second World War. While there is, as stated, no allegory controlling the work as a whole, many things pop up in direct response to Tolkien's view of the world around him. Just like many, many pieces of art, music and especially literature.

It is not entirely a response to the war or wars, however, and The Scouring of the Shire reflects Tolkien's own strong views on the commercialisation of his England, in which many fine old buildings were torn down in the name of progress and replaced with units and malls which he personally didn't care for. Frodo and co., although they may seem it, are not Tommies returning from the wars. If that were the case, I'm sure that Pippin would have been killed by the troll on Dagorlad to reflect JRRTs own experience of lost friends from World War I.

As for numerology in the books, I have often noted with interest myself occurences of particular numbers. You may notice that in the Sammath Naur, Frodo puts on the Ring for the sixth time, and then fails of his quest - six being the number of imperfection. Of course the reason I see this symbology is simply that I want to see it - I think it's cool! That does not mean that it is meant to be there, or that it is wise to go looking for it, considering the unlikelihood of any intentional numerology. You might as well add up the number of chapters, divide by the number of volumes, add the numbers all together and come up with an answer that you could interpret to mean pretty much anything.

The Bible Code is an entirely different matter. Many different scribes worked on the texts. These people were experts the like of which we probably do not even have today, people whose sole existence was for the copying of religious scrolls. They had time and skill that JRRT did not, being constrained by his obligation to hold down a real job. The scriptures were also written in Hebrew, in which every letter has an associated numerical value. This is the whole foundation of the Bible Code, and to suggest that an english book could ever hope to possess such a level of complexity is to admit a lack of understanding of the topic. Which is of course off-topic, anyway, and just an invitation for the Skwerlz to come knocking at your door with a bazooka.

Likewise, commenting on someone's spacing is an open invitation to a Skwerling, and ultimately futile anyway. It is a matter of style, and you should only bring that up if you're happy with someone finding fault with overabundance of smilies, or the use of the same icon over and over again.

There seem to be lots of cases of hidden meaning in The Lord of the Rings. So many, in fact that it's hard to talk about them all on one thread. Maybe it would be a better idea to open a new topic on one thing in particular?

01-24-2003, 06:17 AM	#13
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Tolkien's experience in World War I and of World War II definitely coloured his writing of The Lord of the Rings. Although not published until the mid 1950s, it was started in 1936 and was almost completed in the first version by the end of the Second World War. While there is, as stated, no allegory controlling the work as a whole, many things pop up in direct response to Tolkien's view of the world around him. Just like many, many pieces of art, music and especially literature. It is not entirely a response to the war or wars, however, and The Scouring of the Shire reflects Tolkien's own strong views on the commercialisation of his England, in which many fine old buildings were torn down in the name of progress and replaced with units and malls which he personally didn't care for. Frodo and co., although they may seem it, are not Tommies returning from the wars. If that were the case, I'm sure that Pippin would have been killed by the troll on Dagorlad to reflect JRRTs own experience of lost friends from World War I. As for numerology in the books, I have often noted with interest myself occurences of particular numbers. You may notice that in the Sammath Naur, Frodo puts on the Ring for the sixth time, and then fails of his quest - six being the number of imperfection. Of course the reason I see this symbology is simply that I want to see it - I think it's cool! That does not mean that it is meant to be there, or that it is wise to go looking for it, considering the unlikelihood of any intentional numerology. You might as well add up the number of chapters, divide by the number of volumes, add the numbers all together and come up with an answer that you could interpret to mean pretty much anything. The Bible Code is an entirely different matter. Many different scribes worked on the texts. These people were experts the like of which we probably do not even have today, people whose sole existence was for the copying of religious scrolls. They had time and skill that JRRT did not, being constrained by his obligation to hold down a real job. The scriptures were also written in Hebrew, in which every letter has an associated numerical value. This is the whole foundation of the Bible Code, and to suggest that an english book could ever hope to possess such a level of complexity is to admit a lack of understanding of the topic. Which is of course off-topic, anyway, and just an invitation for the Skwerlz to come knocking at your door with a bazooka. Likewise, commenting on someone's spacing is an open invitation to a Skwerling, and ultimately futile anyway. It is a matter of style, and you should only bring that up if you're happy with someone finding fault with overabundance of smilies, or the use of the same icon over and over again. There seem to be lots of cases of hidden meaning in The Lord of the Rings. So many, in fact that it's hard to talk about them all on one thread. Maybe it would be a better idea to open a new topic on one thing in particular? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.